Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #665862

Re: The real measurements deny The Shit

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: The real measurements deny The Shit
Date 2025-09-09 09:07 +0200
Message-ID <mia1p1Ft8spU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <18614330d980e337$1042309$2361132$c2265aab@news.newsdemon.com> <d2ItQ.65319$%6be.9794@fx14.ams4> <1ri36y8.17v1g1n1ibdy9tN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <PukuQ.119$M1K4.95@fx04.ams4> <1riajs0.1eo36351cty6yxN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

Show all headers | View raw

Am Sonntag000007, 07.09.2025 um 13:30 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
> Paul B. Andersen <relativity@paulba.no> wrote:
> 
>> Den 03.09.2025 14:10, skrev J. J. Lodder:
>>>
>>> Being pedantic about it: General relativity -by itself-
>>> predicts nothing about light deflection.
>>> It is a purely geometrical theory without physical content.
>>
>> What is "General relativity - by itself" ?
>>
>> The theory which Einstein called "The General Theory of Relativity"
>> predicts gravitational deflection of light.
>>
>> https://paulba.no/paper/Foundation_of_GR.pdf
>> In chapter
>> 24.Behaviour of Rods and Clocks in the Static Gravitational
>>      Field. Bending of Light-rays. Motion of the Perihelion of
>>      a Planetary Orbit
>>
>> We find on page 69;
>> "We examine the curvature undergone by a ray of light passing
>>    by a mass M at the distance ?. If we choose the system of
>>    co-ordinates in agreement with the accompanying Figure 24.1,
>>    the total bending of the ray (calculated positively if concave
>>    towards the origin) is given in sufficient approximation by
>>    . . . .
>>    Carrying out the calculation, this gives B = 2?/? = ?M/2π?
>>    . . . .
>>    According to this, a ray of light going past the sun
>>    undergoes a deflexion of 1.7"
>> "
> 
> Now that is an old reference indeed.
> 
>> I am sure you know this, so why the strange expression
>> "General relativity - by itself" ?
> 
> General relativity, by itself, is just the Einstein equation.
> There is no physics in it, it is pure geometry.
> There is only the unspecified source term,
> the stress-energy tensor.
> (which can in principle be anything, and cannot be predicted from GR)
> 
> Back then, in 1920, fundamental physics was simple indeed.
> There was nothing but the classical Lorentz theory of 'electrons',
> based on Maxwell's equations and the Lorentz force law.
> (not to be confused with 'electrons' as we know them these days)
> 
> As you know, this bit of physics integrates easily into GR,
> by just putting the metrics into the classical Maxwell eqns.
> Einstein does that in sec. 22 of your ref.
> The light deflection then follows easily.
> Though apparently natural,
> this is not part of 'general relativity by itself'.
> It is an addition of some physics to it.
> 
> These days 'physics' has grown enormously,
> there is quantum field theory, several fundamental interactions,
> and perhaps strings.
> But, as you know, this is not without problems.
> The Grand Unification of those forces is missing,
> string theory is (arguably) a failure,
> and merging general relativity with all things quantum
> to a Theory OF Everything has been found to be impossible, so far.
> 
> Therefore I think it is best to keep pure geometry,
> (as given by general relativity)
> and the physics that plays out in that geometry
> as separate as possible,

My own approach to this problem was:

assume that spacetime of GR is real and make particles (and 'all things 
quantum') out of that.

That is also kind of unification, but based upon a different background.

The idea is relatively simple and goes like this:

if something like spacetime does in fact exist, that from what type of 
'elements' is it composed?

I found a certain type of quaternions (so called 'biquaternions') would 
fit, and therefore had assumed, that spacetime is actually a quaternion 
field.

These 'elements' could be set into motion and that motion would 
distribute in a certain manner.

It would generate certain patterns and among those are timelike stable 
structures, which we call 'matter'.

I have written kind of book about this concept, which can be found here:


https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing

It is kind of 'geometric theory', because the geometry itself is used to 
create particles and 'all things quantum'.

It's not particulary intuitiv, because its 'geometry' is not the usual 
geometry, which is based in common understanding upon Euclidean space.


TH

Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-21 06:58 +0200
  Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-21 21:36 +0200
    Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-21 19:39 +0000
      Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 11:06 +0200
        Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-22 16:07 +0000
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 18:43 +0200
            Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-22 16:50 +0000
              Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 18:55 +0200
    Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-21 23:32 +0200
      Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-22 20:20 +0200
        Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 20:58 +0200
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 21:22 +0200
            Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-23 22:33 +0200
              Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-24 00:26 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-24 23:18 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 06:19 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-25 21:36 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 22:03 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-26 10:53 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-26 11:51 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-27 12:00 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-27 14:02 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-28 19:54 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-28 21:22 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-28 20:09 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-28 22:35 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-28 20:44 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-28 23:24 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-29 20:41 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:06 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 08:30 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 08:45 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-29 14:52 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-29 15:16 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-30 11:56 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 12:14 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Tharon Turlapov <pv@llh.ru> - 2025-08-30 10:28 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 12:49 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Micha Wojewódka <iaek@oahdfewd.pl> - 2025-08-30 11:04 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 14:23 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-30 12:37 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Joshawa Lécuyer <ucyr@asaa.fr> - 2025-08-30 12:51 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-30 12:54 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Daryel Chevalier <elri@rrdird.fr> - 2025-08-30 19:46 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-30 15:02 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Ulisez Walentowicz <at@letlizs.pl> - 2025-08-30 20:00 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-31 14:14 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-31 12:46 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Zackee Dovlatov <ozdvzc@taaddd.ru> - 2025-08-31 15:52 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-31 17:09 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-31 14:50 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Harless Eli Sokolowski <wklo@asslo.pl> - 2025-08-31 15:55 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Richard Hachel <rh@tiscali.fr> - 2025-08-31 17:14 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-31 20:37 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-31 21:11 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-31 12:02 -0700
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Orren Halapkhaev <vla@vnara.ru> - 2025-08-31 19:11 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-08-31 12:16 -0700
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-31 12:54 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-31 13:38 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-31 19:49 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-31 20:06 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-31 21:03 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-31 21:17 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-01 08:54 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-01 21:13 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-01 22:40 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-02 07:40 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-02 08:03 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-02 10:15 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-02 19:27 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-02 22:02 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Eudaldo Kabaloev <kouu@oeoev.ru> - 2025-09-02 20:22 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-02 23:07 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-03 15:53 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-03 16:45 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-04 22:31 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-04 23:11 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-04 22:02 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-05 07:06 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-05 11:25 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-05 12:38 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-06 21:59 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Wilber Mihalev <wilva@birli.ru> - 2025-09-06 21:06 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-06 23:12 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-07 20:26 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-09-03 14:10 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-03 14:33 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-03 14:47 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Alan Zdunowski <lzwski@uduawwi.pl> - 2025-09-03 12:52 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-09-03 21:03 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Bernabe Jaskulski <ae@ae.pl> - 2025-09-03 20:10 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-09-04 22:38 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-04 20:03 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Douglas Bazhaev <lughv@ao.ru> - 2025-09-04 18:15 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-04 20:32 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-05 10:16 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-05 11:02 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-06 20:07 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-06 20:35 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-06 18:46 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-06 21:00 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-06 19:07 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-06 21:24 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-06 19:25 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Jhon Kabulov <hv@jvlnuu.ru> - 2025-09-06 20:48 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-06 23:15 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-07 08:19 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-07 11:00 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-07 10:55 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Teobaldo Szczepanski <aznpic@lndsisde.pl> - 2025-09-07 11:27 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-07 12:01 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Javier Poingdestre <vjdjra@ned.fr> - 2025-09-08 07:36 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-08 09:13 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Merlin Lebeau <bemnla@reera.fr> - 2025-09-08 10:14 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-08 17:04 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Kalob Lévêque <lk@vujl.fr> - 2025-09-09 15:50 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-07 14:46 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-06 22:21 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-06 23:18 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-07 20:26 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-07 21:30 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-07 20:15 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-07 22:34 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-07 20:38 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-07 22:58 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-08 14:44 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-08 14:51 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-08 14:03 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-08 17:01 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-08 16:23 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-08 19:13 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-08 17:18 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-08 19:44 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-08 22:27 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-08 22:31 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-09-07 13:30 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-09-09 09:07 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-09 09:49 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-09-10 11:02 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-10 10:38 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-10 12:48 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-09-12 07:59 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-12 05:58 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-09-13 08:41 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Eniel Babadei <aali@eeid.ru> - 2025-09-09 09:01 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2025-09-08 11:05 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-08 14:19 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-08 21:53 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2025-09-08 23:49 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-09 10:37 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-09 10:39 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2025-09-09 11:22 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-09 22:53 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-10 06:45 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-10 22:09 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-09-10 20:38 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-11 07:10 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-11 07:09 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-11 19:16 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-11 19:58 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-12 11:31 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-12 12:44 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-12 14:00 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-12 14:13 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-09-13 12:51 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-09-13 12:57 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Jamie Kabisha <jsbaj@jiaaa.ru> - 2025-09-10 12:26 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-09-08 23:32 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit HenryWilson <Hgw@home.com> - 2025-09-08 23:55 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Simei Wojewódzki <ze@zeizy.pl> - 2025-08-31 19:07 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Evan Marchuk <va@ar.ru> - 2025-08-28 21:02 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 22:24 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 22:31 +0200
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-23 22:15 +0200
            Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-24 00:29 +0200
              Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-24 23:44 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-24 22:41 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 06:33 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-25 06:37 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-25 22:05 +0200
    Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-22 08:56 +0200
    Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-22 10:13 +0200
      Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 11:04 +0200
      Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-22 19:28 +0200
        Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 19:44 +0200
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-22 20:41 +0200
            Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 20:55 +0200
              Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-23 20:53 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-24 00:08 +0200
        Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-22 20:53 +0200
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-08-22 21:10 +0200
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-23 20:30 +0200
            Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-26 21:02 +0200
              Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-27 14:28 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-27 21:14 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Lazaro Wojewódka <jole@lqae.pl> - 2025-08-27 19:37 +0000
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-28 09:57 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-28 22:55 +0200
                Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Chadwick Wojewódzki <ik@zwij.pl> - 2025-08-28 21:16 +0000
          Re: The real measurements deny The Shit Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-24 08:13 +0200

csiph-web