Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32

From	Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.misc, alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32
Date	2015-11-10 18:18 +0100
Organization	Me, Myself and I
Message-ID	<mfl9hc-j2i.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> (permalink)
References	<n1njsp$n5s$1@solani.org> <PM0005241C7B957C4D@aca432c8.ipt.aol.com> <n1qa48$jkl$1@dont-email.me> <PM00052430B92C8826@aca41c5c.ipt.aol.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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In article <PM00052430B92C8826@aca41c5c.ipt.aol.com>,
jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>gareth wrote:
>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:PM0005241C7B957C4D@aca432c8.ipt.aol.com...
>>> That's (30 minutes boot-up) is horrid.  DEC would consider
>>> that a bug.
>>
>> Any decent computer person worth her or his salt considers both Microsoft
>> Windows and Unix and its spawns to be bugs.
>
>
>It all depends on what the owner of the system wants/needs.  Since
>TOPS-20 was not available for the general population, something like
>MS or Apple's OS would be the preferred system on a PC.  MS' main
>problems were that they did not know how to do memory management nor
>disk I/O management well (BSODs and reinstalling system software very,
>very often).

They had several other braindead design items. They frankly
didn't know how to make an OS.

The state of the art was well established by 1984, with both
MP/M(became concurrent CPM), QNX and OS/9 doing things right, 
mostly. You also had lots of more equipment-specific OSes like
the Amiga and Atari ones, which were almost half way there;
each around 10-15 years ahead of Microsoft. 

QNX, which I know best, was around 20 years ahead of Microsoft, they
sort of caught up with the 1984 version around 2005. But by then
QNX had moved on. 

You also have Linux, which is not really a unix. It is, internally, 
more a son-of-tops20 with a unix top layer towards the user. (It even
has the IPC deep down, but still lacks a proper enq-deq; but the
locking almost makes up for it. yes, you can ship a page to another
process just as you can with Tops20, but you cannot have the OS
automatically assign them to a group of processes)

MS could easily have bought either of these, and made a hypervisor
based on QNX, OS/9, CCPM, or a dozen other; and run compatibilty
boxes for the DOS stuff inside. Instead they made the abomination
of Windows, when there was at least a decade of proof they were
way, way behind. This hypervisor thing is still a good thing for
MS to do. But I won't hold my breath.

Like I explain to my carpenter brother in law; these things are
tools. With windows you get a IKEA drill, which is suited for the
novice user. I need a DeWalt, so I use BSDs and Linux. Mostly
BSDs, actually.

-- mrr

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[CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 RS Wood  <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-08 13:49 +0000
  Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-09 09:22 +0300
    Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-11-09 09:22 +0200
      Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-09 11:10 +0000
        Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-09 12:07 +0000
      Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-09 12:08 +0100
        Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-09 14:13 +0000
          Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-09 14:23 +0000
            Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 18:18 +0100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-10 18:25 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-10 19:35 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "John Jackson" <jj@nospam.com> - 2015-11-11 06:47 +1100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-10 21:15 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "John Jackson" <jj@nospam.com> - 2015-11-11 12:15 +1100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-11 10:19 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 06:23 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2015-11-10 19:51 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-11 00:31 +0100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-11-11 08:01 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-11 12:23 +0100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-12 03:27 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-12 13:23 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 14:39 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 05:51 +1100
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 06:28 +1100
          Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-09 16:24 +0000
            Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-10 16:01 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 18:20 +0100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-10 18:49 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 14:39 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-11 16:31 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-11 18:05 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-11 18:20 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-11 23:24 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 14:04 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-12 14:47 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-13 13:58 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-13 15:44 +0100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-14 13:56 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "John Jackson" <jj@nospam.com> - 2015-11-15 04:44 +1100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-11-14 10:15 -0800
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-11-14 10:53 -0800
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-16 14:47 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-12 15:26 +0000
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 17:52 +0100
          Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-09 20:17 +0100
          Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2015-11-10 02:21 +0000
            Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
      Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-09 14:13 +0000
        Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 05:31 +1100
          Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
            Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 18:05 +0100
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 10:52 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2015-11-11 11:40 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 14:01 +0000
            Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 06:25 +1100
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Johnny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-10 23:19 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Sam Thatch" <st342@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 12:23 +1100
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 07:34 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Johnny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-11 17:24 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-11 17:33 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2015-11-11 09:51 +0000
            Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-12 03:17 +0000
              Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 14:04 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com> - 2015-11-12 12:24 -0500
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-12 17:45 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-13 13:58 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-11-13 15:51 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com> - 2015-11-13 14:51 -0500
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-15 16:44 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-13 18:11 +0000
                Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 12:37 +1100
      Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-11-11 18:32 +0100

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