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| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.misc, alt.folklore.computers |
| Subject | Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 |
| Date | 2015-11-12 05:51 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <dahh16F7c92U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (9 earlier) <PM0005241C7B957C4D@aca432c8.ipt.aol.com> <n1qa48$jkl$1@dont-email.me> <PM00052430B92C8826@aca41c5c.ipt.aol.com> <mfl9hc-j2i.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> <PM0005244512F98C8F@aca4238e.ipt.aol.com> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message news:PM0005244512F98C8F@aca4238e.ipt.aol.com... > Morten Reistad wrote: >> In article <PM00052430B92C8826@aca41c5c.ipt.aol.com>, >> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote: >>>gareth wrote: >>>> "jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message >>>> news:PM0005241C7B957C4D@aca432c8.ipt.aol.com... >>>>> That's (30 minutes boot-up) is horrid. DEC would consider >>>>> that a bug. >>>> >>>> Any decent computer person worth her or his salt considers both >>>> Microsoft >>>> Windows and Unix and its spawns to be bugs. >>> >>> >>>It all depends on what the owner of the system wants/needs. Since >>>TOPS-20 was not available for the general population, something like >>>MS or Apple's OS would be the preferred system on a PC. MS' main >>>problems were that they did not know how to do memory management nor >>>disk I/O management well (BSODs and reinstalling system software very, >>>very often). >> >> They had several other braindead design items. > > Of course. > >> They frankly didn't know how to make an OS. > > Their corporate folklore was based on distribution, not delivery > of computing services. I simply listed the two main items which > made their product unusable. If those two had been functional, > I don't know if the other problems would have caused as much > disgust. > >> >> The state of the art was well established by 1984, with both >> MP/M(became concurrent CPM), QNX and OS/9 doing things right, >> mostly. You also had lots of more equipment-specific OSes like >> the Amiga and Atari ones, which were almost half way there; >> each around 10-15 years ahead of Microsoft. >> >> QNX, which I know best, was around 20 years ahead of Microsoft, they >> sort of caught up with the 1984 version around 2005. But by then >> QNX had moved on. >> >> You also have Linux, which is not really a unix. It is, internally, >> more a son-of-tops20 with a unix top layer towards the user. (It even >> has the IPC deep down, but still lacks a proper enq-deq; but the >> locking almost makes up for it. yes, you can ship a page to another >> process just as you can with Tops20, but you cannot have the OS >> automatically assign them to a group of processes) > > Why would you want them assigned automatically? It should take > a specific JSYS (or an argument to a JSYS) to share them. > >> >> MS could easily have bought either of these, and made a hypervisor >> based on QNX, OS/9, CCPM, or a dozen other; and run compatibilty >> boxes for the DOS stuff inside. Instead they made the abomination >> of Windows, when there was at least a decade of proof they were >> way, way behind. This hypervisor thing is still a good thing for >> MS to do. But I won't hold my breath. > > They obsconded a flavor of VMS, paid DEC to develop it, then > pulled the funding before it was finished. If they had waited > until the DEC developers had finished, they would have had a > really good system (based on my knowledge of the talent of the > people doing the work). I suspect it's typical of MS to > be premature w.r.t. acquiring software and distributing it. > >> >> Like I explain to my carpenter brother in law; these things are >> tools. With windows you get a IKEA drill, which is suited for the >> novice user. I need a DeWalt, so I use BSDs and Linux. Mostly >> BSDs, actually. > > <grin> What would you use if you needed an industrial strength > drill? Those OSes are being run in museums. Some day, > they'll probably be back (with the appropriate upgrading). Not a chance, you watch.
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[CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-08 13:49 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-09 09:22 +0300
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-11-09 09:22 +0200
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-09 11:10 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-09 12:07 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-09 12:08 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-09 14:13 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-09 14:23 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 18:18 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-10 18:25 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-10 19:35 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "John Jackson" <jj@nospam.com> - 2015-11-11 06:47 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-10 21:15 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "John Jackson" <jj@nospam.com> - 2015-11-11 12:15 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-11-11 10:19 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 06:23 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2015-11-10 19:51 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-11 00:31 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-11-11 08:01 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-11 12:23 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-12 03:27 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-12 13:23 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 14:39 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 05:51 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 06:28 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-09 16:24 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-10 16:01 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 18:20 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-10 18:49 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-11 14:39 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-11 16:31 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-11 18:05 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-11 18:20 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-11 23:24 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 14:04 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-12 14:47 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-13 13:58 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-13 15:44 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-14 13:56 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "John Jackson" <jj@nospam.com> - 2015-11-15 04:44 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-11-14 10:15 -0800
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-11-14 10:53 -0800
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-16 14:47 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-11-12 15:26 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 17:52 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-09 20:17 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2015-11-10 02:21 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-09 14:13 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 05:31 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-10 14:22 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-11-10 18:05 +0100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 10:52 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2015-11-11 11:40 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 14:01 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 06:25 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Johnny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-10 23:19 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Sam Thatch" <st342@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 12:23 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-11-11 07:34 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Johnny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-11-11 17:24 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-11-11 17:33 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2015-11-11 09:51 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-12 03:17 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-12 14:04 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com> - 2015-11-12 12:24 -0500
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-11-12 17:45 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-11-13 13:58 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-11-13 15:51 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com> - 2015-11-13 14:51 -0500
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-11-15 16:44 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-13 18:11 +0000
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 12:37 +1100
Re: [CM] Coding with dad on the Dragon 32 Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-11-11 18:32 +0100
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