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Re: Annotated version of SRT

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Am 29.03.2022 um 11:06 schrieb JanPB:

>>>>>>> Also, on p. 13 that editor should have mentioned a typo in the English translation
>>>>>>> in the second formula of the set of equations in the middle of the page (the
>>>>>>> variables ksi and zeta are reversed).
>>>>>> Well, there remained some errors, which I have not found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry..
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a typo by the English translator, not Einstein.
>>>> I have to admit, that missing an error is actually a fault, which I
>>>> tried to avoid.
>>>>
>>>> But I have not dealt with these equations, because I disliked Einstein's
>>>> subtraction of magnetic field strength from electric field strength, anyhow.
>>>
>>> It's nothing peculiar to Einstein, it's the Gaussian system of units.
>> I have actually problems with subtracting electric field strength from
>> magnetic field strength.
>>
>> This is like subtracting 1 V from 1 A.
>>
>> To me this doesn't make any sense at all.
>
> That's your problem then. If you want to resolve this, you must
> learn how various systems of units work.


No.

In the cgs system electric field strength and magnetic field strength 
have the same unit of force, because the fields were equated with the 
process of measuring them.

These measuring devices contained deformable springs, which measure a force.

Such springs are contained in many analog measuring devices, like a 
pressure gauge, a cithen balance or a volt-meter.

All of them measure something by a reference to a deformable spring.

But you cannot subtract Volts from psi, just because both were measured 
with a deformable spring.

To do so would require a physical justification, which was entirely 
missing in Einstein's text.


>> Einstein gave absolutely no hints, what he actually tried to figure out
>> and I'm personally lost with that situation, which I'm unable to interpret.
>>
>> So, possibly you are able to tell me, what ' ...(N - v/c* Y)..' is meant
>> to be?
>
> You can rewrite this in the SI system:  ...(N - vY),  etc.

???

N is a vector component of the magnetic field strength vector and Y of 
the electric field strength vector.

To subtract Y from N would require some justification. Bu usually you 
cannot do that, because both have different units.

In cgs system they have the same units, but still cannot be added, 
because the same unit measures different quantities.

>
>> N ist the magnetic field strength in the z-direction and Y the electric
>> field strength in the y-direction.
>>
>> So: what is that????????
>
> The values of the fields measured by the  k  observer.
> Ultimately they are the way they are because Maxwell's equations
> are the way they are.

I wouldn't count that as an explanation.


>> I would say, he meant, that the vectors look like 'pinched together', if
>> the field moves at velocities near the spead of light.
>
> It can look that way.
>
>> This is most likely actually true, but Einstein gave no hint whatever,
>> what he tried to figure out.
>
> He only wanted to show that his method yields the same formulas
> for the transformed fields as those obtained by Lorentz. He also
> does it more elegantly by being able to get rid of the extra multiplicative
> factor by quick geometric considerations while Lorentz works quite
> hard on that one detail in his 1904 paper.


Here a quote from some text written by Lorentz would be required.

If he actually wanted to do, what you assume he wanted to do, he had to 
write that himself.

>>>> I also found it totally illogic to aplly the geometric relations from
>>>> the kinematic part to the 'length' of the field strength vector.
>>>
>>> These are Lorentz's formulas from his 1904 paper (or earlier,
>>> I forget). It's not any more or less illogical than Maxwell's
>>> equations. Einstein uses the same "geometric relations" as
>>> Lorentz in 1904 to derive those formulas.
>> But you cannot apply geometric relations to field strength vectors,
>> because the 'length' of the vectors is arbitrary.
>
> Measured values of those fields are not arbitrary.


Sure. But 'length of the field strength vector' is arbitrary, because it 
is only a geometric representation of field strength.

To apply the methods of the kinematic part to the length of the field 
strength vector is imho nonsense.


>> If the field strength is actually changing with velocity, this would be
>> a physical problem, not a geometrical one.
>
> But the fields do change with the observer, this had been known for
> a long time. ...

Why then wrote Einstein the opposite?



...


>>>>> * "wave train" is the standard physics usage in English. The correct
>>>>> English translation of Einstein's paper (which you should have used
>>>>> in the first place) employs the same term:
>>>>> https://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol2-trans/174
>>>> Sure 'wave-train' is in common use in English. But in German 'Wellenzug'
>>>> (literal translation of 'wave-train) is not used in connection with waves.
>>>
>>> It is: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellenpaket
>> I have thought about this particular phrase for a long time.
>>
>> To me the word 'Wellenzug' (in the German version) didn't make sense.
>
> But it's used in physics in German, at least according to Duden which
> I consider reliable: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Wellenzug
> ("Linie des wellenförmigen Verlaufs einer Welle", "Gebrauch: Physik".)
>
Yes, but the use in German means something else than the same word in 
English, what is called 'false friend'.

To the context it was used, the English term fits better, while the 
German use does not make much sense.

That's why we have to consider the possibility, that the text was 
translated from English to German and not the other way round.


TH

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Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-27 08:48 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-27 02:11 -0700
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Evodio Bayon <eba@nctps.mx> - 2022-03-27 09:54 +0000
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-27 19:35 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-27 12:28 -0700
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-28 08:47 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-28 02:50 -0700
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-29 08:19 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-29 08:52 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 02:06 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-30 09:13 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-30 16:46 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 11:37 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-31 08:16 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Vance Rera <rerv@trscnat.ag> - 2022-04-03 20:38 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 11:08 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-31 08:04 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-31 00:14 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-31 00:26 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-01 07:05 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-01 00:25 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-02 08:18 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-01 07:37 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-01 00:39 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-02 08:38 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 18:17 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-02 14:57 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 19:07 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-02 15:22 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 19:33 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-02 12:30 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Richie Cruze <rcru@bstntap.jp> - 2022-04-02 19:53 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 00:38 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Elmer Joss <josl@nntdca.mx> - 2022-04-03 08:50 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 13:07 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Vance Rera <rerv@trscnat.ag> - 2022-04-03 20:24 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 15:34 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Vance Rera <rerv@trscnat.ag> - 2022-04-04 00:25 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 19:33 -0700
                Re: Annotated nazi excrement JanPB failed the eugenicist IQ-test Hagan Koon <koh@nisnaha.mx> - 2022-04-04 12:30 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-03 08:07 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 00:43 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-03 12:38 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:14 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 01:44 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-04-03 15:42 -0400
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-04-04 07:20 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-04-04 13:55 +0000
                Re: Annotated version of SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-04-03 22:31 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-04-04 13:10 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-29 10:26 +0300
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-29 10:01 +0300
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-30 07:16 +0200
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Paparios <mrios@ing.puc.cl> - 2022-03-27 06:41 -0700
  Re: Annotated version of SRT "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-27 08:31 -0700
  Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-27 11:43 -0400
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-27 19:28 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-29 13:52 -0400

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