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Groups > sci.physics > #836085
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics |
| Subject | Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) |
| Date | 2021-11-18 23:51 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <ivn0itF2g4mU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <ivlmquFpgojU1@mid.individual.net> <ivlp26FptcgU1@mid.individual.net> <ivm3j8FrmteU1@mid.individual.net> <ivm8c7Fshn3U1@mid.individual.net> <ivmrpeF1jikU1@mid.individual.net> |
On 18-Nov-21 10:29 pm, whodat wrote: > On 11/17/2021 11:58 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >> On 18-Nov-21 3:36 pm, whodat wrote: >>> On 11/17/2021 7:37 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>>> On 18-Nov-21 11:59 am, whodat wrote: >>> >>> This is a "second thought" posting. Probably the best place to begin is >>> with a recent conversation I had with a woman who coincidentally is a >>> trained "life coach." And I do mean coincidentally because the reason >>> for our conversation had nothing to do with her training. But the >>> outcome did as I will show. >>> >>> In the course of this conversation, at a critical juncture she destroyed >>> all her credibility by stating, "smart people say..." >>> >>> "Appeal to authority is a common type of fallacy, or an argument based >>> on unsound logic. When writers or speakers use appeal to authority, they >>> are claiming that something must be true because it is believed by >>> someone who said to be an "authority" on the subject." >>> >>> <https://www.softschools.com/examples/fallacies/appeal_to_authority_examples/430/? >>> >>> >>> When appeal to authority takes center stage, it is a variation on >>> Godwin's law. The real conversation is over. >>> >>>>> Several posters in this newsgroup claim to be of genius caliber. >>>>> >>>>> So here's a challenge for them. Prove, or disprove, Euclid's >>>>> parallel postulate, also known as his fifth postulate. >>>> >>>> It has been known for a long time that it cannot be proved or >>>> disproved. >>> >>> And here you are, Sylvia, with an appeal to an invisible authority. >>> >>> You've accepted what is "common wisdom" without really thinking the >>> details through. >>> >>> Even worse, you say "it cannot be proved or disproved. Really? How would >>> you go about proving *that*? You really cannot. >> >> The point is that consistent geometries exist in which it is true >> (Euclidean), and false (spherical, for example), and in which the >> other four axioms are true. >> >> If it were possible to prove the fifth from the other four, then it >> could be proved in spherical geometry, where there are obvious >> counter-examples. >> >> Similarly, if it could be proved false from the other four, then it >> would be proved false in Euclidean geometry, again, despite obvious >> counter-examples. >> >> So neither proof nor disproof from the other axioms is possible. It is >> a genuine axiom in its own right, tells you whether or not you're >> dealing with Euclidean geometry. >> >> Sylvia. > > You've accepted a conventional wisdom that has been applied by others > before us. Factually proof does not *have* to come from the other > postulates. > > The logic train you've accepted has limitations that IMO are ar5tificial > but need not actually limit the problem. > > I accept Einstein's E=mc^2. Where the hell did it come from? Certainly > it was a deviation from the knowledge stream that came before. We cannot > today point at something and say, yes, it grew out of *that*. I predict > that Euclid's fifth postulate is similar, but that proof is much more > difficult. > > You know, for most of mankind's history it was thought that we could > never achieve a four minute mile. Until someone actually achieved that > and then it because a regular occurrence. "It can't be done" should > raise all sorts of red flags. This is pseudo-intellectual drivel. Proof in mathematics has a particular meaning. Things cannot be proved if they are not necessarily true. Sylvia.
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Since several claim to be so smart whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-17 18:59 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 12:37 +1100
Re: Since several claim to be so smart whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-17 20:05 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 15:15 +1100
Objective reality is unobtainable. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2021-11-17 22:40 -0800
Re: Objective reality is unobtainable. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-18 05:34 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 19:07 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-17 20:15 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 20:52 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-17 21:10 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 21:21 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 09:36 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2021-11-18 08:57 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 09:37 -0800
Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-17 22:36 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 21:19 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 09:38 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 09:58 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 10:26 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 10:32 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 10:52 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 11:05 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 12:27 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 12:37 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 15:14 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 15:23 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 23:08 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 06:40 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 07:19 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 07:36 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 08:37 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 08:53 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 10:20 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 13:21 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 13:36 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 15:33 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 16:24 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 16:42 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 17:40 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 17:55 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-20 18:29 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 18:32 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-20 19:12 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 19:18 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-20 20:16 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 21:58 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-21 09:33 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-21 10:21 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-21 12:05 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-21 13:23 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2021-11-20 21:49 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 12:20 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2021-11-19 01:41 -0500
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 16:58 +1100
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-18 05:29 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 23:51 +1100
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-18 09:52 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 08:42 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-20 11:52 +1100
Re: Since several claim to be so smart "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2021-11-21 12:10 -0800
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