Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > sci.physics > #836083
| From | whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics |
| Subject | Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) |
| Date | 2021-11-18 05:29 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <ivmrpeF1jikU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <ivlmquFpgojU1@mid.individual.net> <ivlp26FptcgU1@mid.individual.net> <ivm3j8FrmteU1@mid.individual.net> <ivm8c7Fshn3U1@mid.individual.net> |
On 11/17/2021 11:58 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: > On 18-Nov-21 3:36 pm, whodat wrote: >> On 11/17/2021 7:37 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >>> On 18-Nov-21 11:59 am, whodat wrote: >> >> This is a "second thought" posting. Probably the best place to begin is >> with a recent conversation I had with a woman who coincidentally is a >> trained "life coach." And I do mean coincidentally because the reason >> for our conversation had nothing to do with her training. But the >> outcome did as I will show. >> >> In the course of this conversation, at a critical juncture she destroyed >> all her credibility by stating, "smart people say..." >> >> "Appeal to authority is a common type of fallacy, or an argument based >> on unsound logic. When writers or speakers use appeal to authority, they >> are claiming that something must be true because it is believed by >> someone who said to be an "authority" on the subject." >> >> <https://www.softschools.com/examples/fallacies/appeal_to_authority_examples/430/? >> >> >> When appeal to authority takes center stage, it is a variation on >> Godwin's law. The real conversation is over. >> >>>> Several posters in this newsgroup claim to be of genius caliber. >>>> >>>> So here's a challenge for them. Prove, or disprove, Euclid's >>>> parallel postulate, also known as his fifth postulate. >>> >>> It has been known for a long time that it cannot be proved or disproved. >> >> And here you are, Sylvia, with an appeal to an invisible authority. >> >> You've accepted what is "common wisdom" without really thinking the >> details through. >> >> Even worse, you say "it cannot be proved or disproved. Really? How would >> you go about proving *that*? You really cannot. > > The point is that consistent geometries exist in which it is true > (Euclidean), and false (spherical, for example), and in which the other > four axioms are true. > > If it were possible to prove the fifth from the other four, then it > could be proved in spherical geometry, where there are obvious > counter-examples. > > Similarly, if it could be proved false from the other four, then it > would be proved false in Euclidean geometry, again, despite obvious > counter-examples. > > So neither proof nor disproof from the other axioms is possible. It is a > genuine axiom in its own right, tells you whether or not you're dealing > with Euclidean geometry. > > Sylvia. You've accepted a conventional wisdom that has been applied by others before us. Factually proof does not *have* to come from the other postulates. The logic train you've accepted has limitations that IMO are ar5tificial but need not actually limit the problem. I accept Einstein's E=mc^2. Where the hell did it come from? Certainly it was a deviation from the knowledge stream that came before. We cannot today point at something and say, yes, it grew out of *that*. I predict that Euclid's fifth postulate is similar, but that proof is much more difficult. You know, for most of mankind's history it was thought that we could never achieve a four minute mile. Until someone actually achieved that and then it because a regular occurrence. "It can't be done" should raise all sorts of red flags.
Back to sci.physics | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Since several claim to be so smart whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-17 18:59 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 12:37 +1100
Re: Since several claim to be so smart whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-17 20:05 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 15:15 +1100
Objective reality is unobtainable. Jeff-Relf.Me @. - 2021-11-17 22:40 -0800
Re: Objective reality is unobtainable. whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-18 05:34 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 19:07 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-17 20:15 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 20:52 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-17 21:10 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 21:21 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 09:36 -0800
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2021-11-18 08:57 -0600
Re: Since several claim to be so smart Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 09:37 -0800
Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-17 22:36 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 21:19 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 09:38 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 09:58 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 10:26 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 10:32 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 10:52 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 11:05 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 12:27 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 12:37 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 15:14 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-18 15:23 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 23:08 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 06:40 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 07:19 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 07:36 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 08:37 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 08:53 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 10:20 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 13:21 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 13:36 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 15:33 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 16:24 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Solving Tornadoes <solvingtornadoes@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 16:42 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-19 17:40 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 17:55 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-20 18:29 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 18:32 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-20 19:12 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 19:18 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-20 20:16 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2021-11-20 21:58 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-21 09:33 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-21 10:21 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-21 12:05 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2021-11-21 13:23 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Serg io <invalid@invalid.com> - 2021-11-20 21:49 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2021-11-19 12:20 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2021-11-19 01:41 -0500
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 16:58 +1100
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-18 05:29 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-18 23:51 +1100
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2021-11-18 09:52 -0600
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2021-11-18 08:42 -0800
Re: Not So Fast, Pilgrim (was Re: Since several claim to be so smart) Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2021-11-20 11:52 +1100
Re: Since several claim to be so smart "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2021-11-21 12:10 -0800
csiph-web