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Groups > comp.theory > #109312
| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Hypothetical possibilities |
| Date | 2024-07-20 20:05 -0400 |
| Organization | i2pn2 (i2pn.org) |
| Message-ID | <f74209ef7d87b6f7891e4a2b89cc18bfe7233810@i2pn2.org> (permalink) |
| References | (6 earlier) <v7h9on$3muu0$1@dont-email.me> <09536cf44fc4c3d14b37641cf8fdc9e8a8c24580@i2pn2.org> <v7hept$3o0be$1@dont-email.me> <97884acd35091ddd67bda892c7a3dd28e188f760@i2pn2.org> <v7hftt$3o7r5$1@dont-email.me> |
On 7/20/24 7:06 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/20/2024 6:00 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 7/20/24 6:47 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/20/2024 5:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 7/20/24 5:21 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 7/20/2024 4:06 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 15:05:53 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 7/20/2024 2:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/20/24 3:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/20/2024 2:00 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 20.jul.2024 om 17:28 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (a) Termination Analyzers / Partial Halt Deciders must halt
>>>>>>>>>>> this is
>>>>>>>>>>> a design requirement.
>>>>>>>>>>> (b) Every simulating termination analyzer HHH either aborts the
>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of its input or not.
>>>>>>>>>>> (c) Within the hypothetical case where HHH does not abort the
>>>>>>>>>>> simulation of its input {HHH, emulated DDD and executed DDD}
>>>>>>>>>>> never stop running.
>>>>>>>>>>> This violates the design requirement of (a) therefore HHH
>>>>>>>>>>> must abort
>>>>>>>>>>> the simulation of its input.
>>>>>> You missed a couple details:
>>>>>> A terminating input shouldn't be aborted, or at least not classified
>>>>>> as not terminating. Terminating inputs needn't be aborted; they
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> simulator halt on their own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And when it aborts, the simulation is incorrect. When HHH
>>>>>>>>>> aborts and
>>>>>>>>>> halts, it is not needed to abort its simulation, because it
>>>>>>>>>> will halt
>>>>>>>>>> of its own.
>>>>>>>>> So you are trying to get away with saying that no HHH ever
>>>>>>>>> needs to
>>>>>>>>> abort the simulation of its input and HHH will stop running?
>>>>>> Pretty much.
>>>>>>>> It is the fact that HHH DOES abort its simulation that makes it not
>>>>>>>> need to.
>>>>>>> No stupid it is not a fact that every HHH that can possibly exist
>>>>>>> aborts
>>>>>>> its simulation.
>>>>>> I thought they all halt after a finite number of steps?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>> {
>>>>> HHH(DDD);
>>>>> return;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> DDD correctly simulated by pure function HHH cannot
>>>>> possibly reach its own return instruction.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You know that you are lying about this as you admit below:
>>
>> Nope, YOU just don't what the words mean, and reckless disregard the
>> teaching you have been getting, which makes your errors not just
>> honest mistakes but reckless pathological lies.
>>
>>>
>>>> It may be that the simulation by HHH never reaches that point,
>>>
>>>> but if HHH aborts its simuliaton and returns (as required for it to
>>>> be a decider) then the behavior of DDD
>>>
>>> Simulated by HHH is to Die, stop running, no longer function.
>>
>> Nope, HHH is NOT the "Machine" that determines what the code does, so
>> can not "Kill" it.
>>
>
> So you are trying to get away with the lie
> that an aborted simulation keeps on running.
>
No, but the BEHAVIOR of the program does, and that is what matters.
You seem to be stuck in YOUR LIE, that the simulation determines what
the program does, not just observes it, because you don't understand the
difference between the Truth itself and the ways to get Knowledge about it.
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Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 10:28 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 12:01 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 13:52 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:38 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:00 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 14:09 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:36 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:02 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 16:10 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:29 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:04 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:24 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:20 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:08 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 21:19 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 11:06 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:25 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:25 -0500
Re: Recursive simulation (was: Hypothetical possibilities) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:37 +0000
Re: Recursive simulation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:53 -0500
Re: Recursive simulation "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:45 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:42 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 20:28 +0000
Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:41 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:15 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:25 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:34 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:27 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:47 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:10 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:02 +0200
Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:10 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:11 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-22 18:33 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Liar? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:39 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 15:00 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:35 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:26 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:34 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-23 17:38 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:12 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:47 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:15 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 21:51 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Olcott is a Mindless robots programmed to disagree Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 23:09 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:13 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:49 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 10:53 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:50 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:05 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-20 21:06 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:17 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:21 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:11 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 17:47 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 19:00 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 18:06 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 20:05 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 19:21 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:01 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:23 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:46 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:52 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:23 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:01 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:14 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:31 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 09:05 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:19 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:33 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:37 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:51 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:15 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 07:37 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:08 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:24 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:34 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:54 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 10:08 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:51 +0200
Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 23:49 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 07:27 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:47 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully --- correction olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:20 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:35 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:51 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:54 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:25 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:03 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:10 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 14:05 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:05 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:32 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:41 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-24 12:01 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-24 08:38 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-26 11:05 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-26 08:58 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-27 09:54 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 08:55 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:28 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:45 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:59 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 10:30 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:12 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:10 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:20 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-29 20:20 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 15:36 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:41 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:42 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 20:32 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:34 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:13 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid lying rebuttal by Olcott --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by Olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 23:09 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-31 10:44 +0200
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:04 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:17 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:44 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:11 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:41 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:50 +0000
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:59 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:21 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:25 -0500
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:13 +0300
Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:35 -0500
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