Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!)

From	felix <me@nothere.invalid>
Newsgroups	aus.computers, aus.cars
Subject	Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!)
Date	2016-09-06 13:57 +1000
Message-ID	<e36t6aFnq1pU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <57cc4908$0$11096$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <e34nb6F7id2U5@mid.individual.net> <57cdfc34$0$1527$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <e36jv5FlufpU1@mid.individual.net> <57ce3393$0$22141$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On 06-September-2016 1:10 PM, Clocky wrote:
> On 6/09/2016 9:20 AM, felix wrote:
>> On 06-September-2016 9:13 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 5/09/2016 4:05 PM, felix wrote:
>>>> On 05-September-2016 2:17 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 4/09/2016 8:09 PM, felix wrote:
>>>>>> On 04-September-2016 5:18 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like Krypsis, Clockwit seems to be an expert on everything he 
>>>>>>> has no
>>>>>>> direct experience with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> like cables
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have more experience with HDMI cables then you do
>>>>
>>>> rubbish. and as I recall, you didn't even know what the standards were
>>>> until I posted them
>>>>
>>>
>>> LOL, felix, please, I told you about the specifications and how HDMI
>>> meeting the same specification simply can *not* cause the visual
>>> differences you described and explained why.
>>
>> as I recall I had to point you to the HDMI cable specs and explain that
>> not all HDMI cables are the same. you were originally trying to claim
>> they were, ie.a HDMI cable is a HDMI cable.
>>
>
> No, I said that HDMI cables of the same spec will perform the same.

not at first. you kept 'upping the ante' each time you were shot down, 
until you reached that final argument

>
>
>> here's a ref..
>> http://www.audioholics.com/hdtv-formats/understanding-difference-hdmi-versions 
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll pick out just one little thing.. " HDMI 1.3 is a requirement for
>> Deep Color support"
>>
>
> Read this from :
> http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/are-expensive-hdmi-cables-worth-buying/ 
>
>
> “In terms of picture quality there’s no difference,” explains Jeff 
> Park, Senior Technical Manager for HDMI Licensing, LLC. “It’s digital, 
> so it’s all or nothing.”
>
> “Whether you have a $100 cable or a $5 cable, if they meet the same 
> specification requirements there should be no difference,” says Jeff. 
> “From a technical point of view they are exactly the same.”

yes. 'should be no difference', and I agree technically and 
theoretically speaking. however, that's not what happens in practice. 
(see further and final comment)

>
> But he must be wrong because that's what I've been saying all along.
>
> So it's down to your pixiedust and voodoo  then :-)
>
>> also for a simpler version.. <
>> http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/192/~/differences-between-hdmi-versions-1.1,-1.2,-1.3a,-1.4-and-2.0%3F 
>>
>>>
>>
>> then I gave you a little test, that you didn't recognize as such, and
>> asked you why better HDMI cables have triple or quad shielding. you
>> didn't have a clue and suggested it was just to rip off consumers with
>> higher pricing, and eventually had to ask me, lol.
>>
>
> I asked you nothing,

you did. you eventually admitted you didn't know, and asked me to say 
why. maybe some googlemeister can find it. I can't be bothered.

> my point all along is that you could not see what you claimed you 
> could see due to the shielding on the cables.
>
> Had you said 'I see sparkles when I use cable x over cable y' then 
> there was a very good technical explanation as to why that is. When 
> you say you see analog visual differences between different digital 
> cables of the same spec all you are seeing is a placebo effect.

see final comment

>
> You also haven't shown these differences that only you can see anywhere.

I could, if you were here, show you in person

>
> I also linked to a video where a monster cable was stress tested vs a 
> cheapy and the cheapy won by a mile.

which is irrelevant for picture quality. and which monster cable was it 
anyway? as I've mentioned before, there's a range of different quality 
and performance, and as I've also mentioned, I can swap between the 
different series and observe variation in picture quality. do you have 
any monster or high end cables to play with? no!

>
>
> So much for quality then.
>
>>>
>>> You still don't believe it and that speaks volumes about your
>>> experience with cables.
>>>
>>
>> rather, the fact that swapping cables can make a difference, and you
>> were/are unaware of this, speaks volumes about your LACK of experiences
>> with cables. I'm telling you what I know from many years of experience
>> with cables, and as you will recall, the discussion was originally about
>> cables in general, not specifically about HDMI cables.
>>
>>
>
> Felix, you still believe different brands of blank DVD media, like 
> HDMI cable results in visual differences that are simply not possible 
> with digital signals.

that was taken out of context. I said that when I changed digital media 
I immediately noticed certain differences, and that persisted with 
further copying. however, it may have been just a fluke due to the 
source files, and so I would have to do some controlled experimentation 
to confirm what I noticed.

>
> *That* says it all and whether you use a $2 posted Chinese cable to 
> link your TV to your player or some extortionate Monster cable of the 
> same spec makes absolutely no difference to what you are seeing on the 
> screen.
>
> Even if it did make a difference through some fault or signal losses, 
> it still wouldn't result in what you claim to be seeing.
>
>

so explain this one genius. recently I changed a top range monster cable 
with the latest higher spec monster, the platinum series. (same length) 
the picture quality was worse! so I changed them back again. according 
to you there should have been no visible difference, but I would have 
expected to see some improvement in picture quality (if any) with the 
better cable. just another example of the effect of swapping cables that 
you say can't happen. :)


-- 
"everything in Islam originates
from the testimony of one pedophile"
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Back to aus.computers | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 00:50 +1000
  Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 10:03 +1000
  Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-03 00:50 +0000
    Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 20:00 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-03 21:55 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 22:22 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 22:32 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-04 00:55 +0000
        Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 11:41 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 13:41 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 15:46 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 17:17 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 17:54 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 20:39 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 21:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 11:23 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 14:20 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start news16 <news16@woa.com.au> - 2016-09-04 03:08 +0000
      Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 16:59 +0800
        Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-04 20:19 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 22:23 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:40 +0800
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:05 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start news16 <news16@woa.com.au> - 2016-09-04 22:54 +0000
              Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 09:58 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:02 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:39 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start pedro <me@privacy.net> - 2016-09-04 18:47 +0800
          Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:43 +0800
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:08 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:50 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 05:15 +0800
          Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:41 +0800
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:09 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-05 13:32 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:03 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:37 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-05 20:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 21:21 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 23:05 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 23:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 05:42 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 08:01 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 09:46 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 11:53 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:45 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 10:09 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 11:11 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 11:27 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 10:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 12:35 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 14:08 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 17:45 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 20:50 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 00:28 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 23:25 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 07:54 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-07 13:52 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 14:25 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-07 14:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 16:44 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-07 20:21 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@hornet.net.ay.you> - 2016-09-07 20:26 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 21:48 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-07 23:19 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 10:01 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@nunnya.business.com.au> - 2016-09-08 10:14 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Jacko" <Jacko_ONE@bigpond.com> - 2016-09-08 10:58 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 10:47 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 17:19 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 20:06 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 22:48 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 22:56 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 23:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 23:41 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-09 00:32 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-09 00:48 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-09 15:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 15:09 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-09 15:24 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-09 17:49 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 19:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-10 12:36 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 13:51 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-09 15:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-09 16:58 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-09 17:39 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-07 23:21 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 07:46 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 18:19 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 18:32 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 19:50 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 20:57 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 23:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 07:56 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 05:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 07:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 08:45 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 11:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:47 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 13:35 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 16:05 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-17 14:47 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-17 17:41 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 18:03 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:46 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@nunnya.business.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:51 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 14:56 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 17:47 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 17:59 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 18:38 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 21:36 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@nunnya.business.com.au> - 2016-09-07 07:17 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:36 +1000
  Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 02:08 +0800
    Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 08:55 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 10:26 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 09:57 +0800
    Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-04 01:16 +0000
      Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 12:39 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 11:10 +0800
        Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 13:43 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 10:45 +0800
        Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 13:46 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-04 15:42 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 17:18 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 16:13 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 20:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 23:05 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:11 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 22:09 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 22:15 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:17 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:12 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:06 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:11 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 18:58 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 20:16 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:05 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 07:13 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 11:20 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 11:10 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 13:57 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 14:57 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 18:02 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 18:35 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 13:50 +0800
            Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 16:12 +0800
              Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-04 20:16 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 23:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 07:59 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 10:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:09 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:42 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 10:52 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:15 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:20 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 10:08 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:16 +0800
      Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 12:53 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 11:16 +0800
          Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 13:35 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 15:55 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 17:21 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-04 22:51 +0000
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 09:37 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 08:48 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 11:03 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 08:13 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 10:54 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-05 10:51 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 12:21 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 13:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 15:28 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 13:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 15:39 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 18:12 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-06 06:27 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 12:52 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:18 +0800
  Re: Lithium jump start Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-06 10:05 +1000

csiph-web