Re: Lithium jump start

From	felix <me@nothere.invalid>
Newsgroups	aus.computers, aus.cars
Subject	Re: Lithium jump start
Date	2016-09-09 00:32 +1000
Message-ID	<e3db3pF9d4jU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(22 earlier) <nqrd3e$nc$1@dont-email.me> <e3d51uF7qumU4@mid.individual.net> <nqrn39$ht$2@dont-email.me> <e3d6gvF89v5U1@mid.individual.net> <nqrpnn$ard$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 08-September-2016 11:41 PM, Noddy wrote:
> On 08/09/16 11:13 PM, felix wrote:
>
>>> In a round-a-bout way. Try as I might I simply *cannot* explain why
>>> you are such a fucking dullard, and fail to understand basic concepts
>>> even after they've been explained to you 27 times.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> they were perfectly legitimate points I made. the fact that you are
>> dodging them is interesting. you poo-hooed the idea that less
>> accelerator depression is not an indication of improved engine 
>> performance.
>
> You waffled on about nothing other than a load of irrelevant 
> ill-informed bullshit Felix.
>
> Here. Have a read:
>
>> http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/impp-1106-fuel-system-cleaners/ 
>>
>
> Just about every one of these pre-packaged "fuel injector cleaner" 
> products uses the exact same ingredients, and just about every one of 
> them will do absolutely jack fucking shit *other* than lighten your 
> wallet.
>
> Snake oil sucks in people like you every single day.....
>
>
>

DixieGeek May 26, 2015

Testing one brand of fuel system cleaner on fuel injectors which are 
performing within manufacturers specs in a laboratory environment is 
hardly comprehensive enough to conclusively say that their use in ALL 
situations is fiction.

Your baseline should have been factory new injectors right of the the 
box. Then take measurements of the same model injectors being used in a 
currently operational car which had never had a fuel system cleaning. 
Use the pour-in cleaner according to manufacturers instructions, then 
test the car's injectors again. The ones you used were already within 
manufacturers specs, and the technician who conducted the test remarked 
it would be hard to improve on their performance, so I'm unsure exactly 
what you expected

Most of these products claim to clean the entire fuel system from 
end-to-end, including removing deposits from the intake valves. If the 
fuel injectors are working acceptably, but the issue is somewhere else 
in the system, these chemicals might be of some use. Your process 
doesn't even begin to test this claim.

To test this would require actually testing the product on a real cars 
of different make and models, getting numbers such as average 0-60 & 
40-70 times and measured fuel economy before and after using the 
product. would be a good start. Measuring the result in real-world 
testing would either confirm or invalidate anecdotal claims.

You state that most of the deposits on fuel injectors are due to the 
combustion process. How exactly? Port injectors are located inside the 
intake port of the engine, which is sealed off from the combustion 
process when the intake valve is closed. If the intake port is subject 
to the combustion process, then you have bigger problems than dirty fuel 
injectors. Now, you might argue that the heat of the combustion process 
could cause any residual fuel in the intake port  to create 
deposits/varnish on the injectors and that is in fact what happens. But 
it's not from direct contact with the combustion process.

You effectively did a complete rebuild on the fuel injectors after this 
test. I would certainly expect that the process you describe would 
remove all deposits and make the injectors look as new. And since the 
injectors you tested were already within manufacturers specs, I would 
hope that a professional rebuild wouldn't make them perform any worse. 
However, if the fuel injectors are worn so as to be outside of the 
manufacturers specs, neither this process nor any pour-in chemical will 
return them to usable condition.

You were smart to hide the name of the fuel system cleaner you used. 
After reading this article and the claims you made, had you revealed it, 
you would have undoubtedly received a letter from the company's legal 
council. Had you been sued, you would have lost the case in court 
because you did not perform enough objective testing and collect enough 
data to prove your claim that their product or ANY fuel system cleaner's 
claims are fiction.

If you are going to perform similar testing in the future, consult with 
an appropriate third party testing laboratory. Contract with one which 
is willing to create a comprehensive testing process for your objective, 
will follow accepted testing practices, will collect enough data  so as 
to draw an objective conclusion and is willing to stake their 
professional reputation on the results when the results are published. 
If you do testing this way, you won't have fear of lawsuits and you'll 
give your readers information upon which they can make informed decisions.

-- 
"everything in Islam originates
from the testimony of one pedophile"
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

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Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 00:50 +1000
  Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 10:03 +1000
  Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-03 00:50 +0000
    Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 20:00 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-03 21:55 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 22:22 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-03 22:32 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-04 00:55 +0000
        Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 11:41 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 13:41 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 15:46 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 17:17 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 17:54 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 20:39 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 21:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 11:23 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 14:20 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start news16 <news16@woa.com.au> - 2016-09-04 03:08 +0000
      Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 16:59 +0800
        Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-04 20:19 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 22:23 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:40 +0800
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:05 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start news16 <news16@woa.com.au> - 2016-09-04 22:54 +0000
              Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 09:58 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:02 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:39 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start pedro <me@privacy.net> - 2016-09-04 18:47 +0800
          Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 20:59 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:43 +0800
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:08 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:50 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 05:15 +0800
          Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:41 +0800
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:09 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-05 13:32 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:03 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:37 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-05 20:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 21:21 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 23:05 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 23:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 05:42 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 08:01 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 09:46 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 11:53 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:45 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 10:09 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 11:11 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 11:27 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 10:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 12:35 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 14:08 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 17:45 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 20:50 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 00:28 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 23:25 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 07:54 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-07 13:52 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 14:25 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-07 14:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 16:44 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-07 20:21 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@hornet.net.ay.you> - 2016-09-07 20:26 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 21:48 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-07 23:19 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 10:01 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@nunnya.business.com.au> - 2016-09-08 10:14 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Jacko" <Jacko_ONE@bigpond.com> - 2016-09-08 10:58 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 10:47 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 17:19 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 20:06 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 22:48 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 22:56 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-08 23:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 23:41 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-09 00:32 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-09 00:48 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-09 15:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 15:09 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-09 15:24 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-09 17:49 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-09 19:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-10 12:36 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-10 13:51 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-09 15:49 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-09 16:58 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-09 17:39 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-07 23:21 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-08 07:46 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 18:19 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 18:32 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 19:50 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 20:57 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 23:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-07 07:56 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 05:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 07:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 08:45 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 11:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:47 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 13:35 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 16:05 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-17 14:47 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-17 17:41 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 18:03 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:46 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@nunnya.business.com.au> - 2016-09-06 13:51 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 14:56 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 17:47 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 17:59 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 18:38 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-06 21:36 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Lindsay <ask.me.for.it@nunnya.business.com.au> - 2016-09-07 07:17 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:36 +1000
  Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 02:08 +0800
    Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 08:55 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 10:26 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 09:57 +0800
    Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-04 01:16 +0000
      Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-04 12:39 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 11:10 +0800
        Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 13:43 +1000
      Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 10:45 +0800
        Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 13:46 +1000
          Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-04 15:42 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 17:18 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 16:13 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 20:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 23:05 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:11 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-04 22:09 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 22:15 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 00:17 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:12 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:06 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:40 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:11 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 18:58 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 20:16 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:05 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 07:13 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 11:20 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 11:10 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 13:57 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 14:57 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-06 18:02 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-06 18:35 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start (cables again!) Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-06 13:50 +0800
            Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 16:12 +0800
              Re: Lithium jump start F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-04 20:16 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 23:18 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 08:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 07:59 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 10:13 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:09 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 17:42 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 10:52 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:15 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start felix <me@nothere.invalid> - 2016-09-05 18:20 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 10:08 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:16 +0800
      Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 12:53 +1000
        Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-04 11:16 +0800
          Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 13:35 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-04 15:55 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-04 17:21 +1000
            Re: Lithium jump start not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2016-09-04 22:51 +0000
              Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 09:37 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 08:48 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 11:03 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 08:13 +0800
                Re: Lithium jump start Noddy <me@wardengineering.com> - 2016-09-05 10:54 +1000
              Re: Lithium jump start D Walford <dwalford@internode.on.net> - 2016-09-05 10:51 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 12:21 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 13:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 15:28 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 13:00 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 15:39 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 18:12 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-09-06 06:27 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2016-09-05 12:52 +1000
                Re: Lithium jump start Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> - 2016-09-05 15:18 +0800
  Re: Lithium jump start Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-09-06 10:05 +1000

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