Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers

From	Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers
Date	2024-12-12 14:40 +0100
Message-ID	<JSRA5-gpp8-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <JStep-g6s0-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <JStxL-g6yY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <JSu0N-g6Yk-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <JSu0N-g6Yk-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <JSvSV-g8a3-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

Show all headers | View raw

> On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 09:29:08PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > Last time I had to write a removal request I asked ChatGPT and it worked
> > well!

Le Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 02:29:08PM +0000, Holger Levsen a écrit :
> 
> is this debian-devel@ or -curiosa@? (&scnr)

Hi Holger and everybody,

it is a thread on debian-devel@ about how to attract newcomers, and what
I was trying to hint at in a clumsy way (sorry!) is that more and more
people in the pool of potential newcomers will have the use of LLMs part
of their routine and reflexes.

I think that we need to make ourselves ready for that generation and
here are a couple of thoughts about this:

 - as of todays LLMs are also used to solve social problems.  Think
   about the joke of an office worker that uses a LLM to turn bullet
   points in a nice report, sends it to boss, who uses a LLM to turn the
   report to bullet points because no time.  When people start to do so
   in Debian, let's make sure we do not fingerpoint them but fix our
   process instead.  In case of the removal requests, it could be for
   instance to provide a remote access to dak so that a developers with
   an appropriate authentication system can remove their packages by
   themselves.

I hear… « where is the patch? » but… do I have the skills to write it
alone?

 - at work, not using LLMs to write code is like refusing to wear shoes
   at the Olympics because Greeks did not and saying that shoes pollute
   and the run is no less fun when everybody agreed to be bare feet.
   True, but people taking this stance do not stay in competition.  But
   in Debian we have a problem: current commercial LLMs are
   copyright-laundering machines and we do not want to use them to
   develop our code.  To attract newcomers I do not see any other option
   than participating in the creation of Free LLMs that produce code
   that we can use under the main copyright pardigms of the Free
   software (GPL and MIT).  The cheapest way is to clearly express a
   desire for it to happen, and then of course, we can go futher
   by relaying fundraising calls, participating to the costs,
   publicising some of the unique features of our software archive such
   as machine-readable copyright documentaiton listing GPL-compatible
   source files that can be used to train a GPL LLM, etc.

I will not argue that this email really belongs do debian-devel@; the
whole discussion is rather more for debian-project@, but hopping beween
lists is confusing… for humans readers and for AI summarisers!

Have a nice day,

Charles

-- 
Charles Plessy                         Nagahama, Yomitan, Okinawa, Japan
Debian Med packaging team         http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med
Tooting from work,               https://fediscience.org/@charles_plessy
Tooting from home,                 https://framapiaf.org/@charles_plessy

Back to linux.debian.devel | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Robert Chéramy <robert@cheramy.net> - 2024-12-04 17:10 +0100
  Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-12-04 17:40 +0100
  Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2024-12-04 19:20 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Mechtilde Stehmann <mechtilde@debian.org> - 2024-12-04 20:10 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-06 12:40 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Antonio Terceiro <terceiro@debian.org> - 2024-12-08 18:20 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-12-09 18:50 +0100
  Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-05 09:40 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> - 2024-12-05 22:00 +0100
  Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Gard Spreemann <gspr@nonempty.org> - 2024-12-10 09:40 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-12-10 10:00 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Gard Spreemann <gspr@nonempty.org> - 2024-12-10 10:50 +0100
        Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Alexandre Detiste <alexandre.detiste@gmail.com> - 2024-12-10 11:00 +0100
          Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-12-10 15:10 +0100
          Re: Bug tracker speed (was: Bits from DPL) Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-12-11 15:30 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-12-10 11:20 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-12-10 14:00 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Gard Spreemann <gspr@nonempty.org> - 2024-12-10 15:00 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2024-12-11 04:20 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-11 12:40 +0100
        Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-12-11 13:00 +0100
          Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-11 13:30 +0100
            Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2024-12-11 13:30 +0100
              Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2024-12-11 15:30 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2024-12-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org> - 2024-12-12 14:40 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-12-21 03:20 +0100
            Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-12-11 13:50 +0100
              Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-11 14:00 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers sre4ever@free.fr - 2024-12-11 14:10 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-11 14:10 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Sune Vuorela <nospam@vuorela.dk> - 2024-12-11 14:40 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-11 15:10 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers sre4ever@free.fr - 2024-12-11 15:40 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Philipp Kern <pkern@debian.org> - 2024-12-11 15:50 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-12-11 16:10 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers sre4ever@free.fr - 2024-12-11 15:30 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-12-11 17:00 +0100
                Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Salvo Tomaselli <ltworf@debian.org> - 2025-01-08 22:30 +0100
            Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-12-11 17:00 +0100
            Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> - 2024-12-18 20:50 +0100
              Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Ananthu C V <weepingclown@debian.org> - 2024-12-18 21:00 +0100
        Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Paul Gevers <elbrus@debian.org> - 2024-12-12 22:10 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Richard Lewis <richard.lewis.debian@googlemail.com> - 2024-12-12 00:10 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Otto Kekäläinen <otto@debian.org> - 2024-12-12 03:10 +0100
        Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> - 2024-12-15 01:50 +0100
          A better bts? - https://fabre.debian.net (was: Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers) Richard Lewis <richard.lewis.debian@googlemail.com> - 2024-12-15 20:30 +0100
            Re: A better bts? - https://fabre.debian.net Pirate Praveen <praveen@onenetbeyond.org> - 2024-12-15 20:40 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-12-12 05:10 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-12-12 07:50 +0100
    Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Don Armstrong <don@debian.org> - 2024-12-13 05:20 +0100
      Re: Bits from DPL / Feedback on attracting newcomers Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-12-21 03:20 +0100

csiph-web