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Groups > comp.os.linux.advocacy > #405359

Re: spreadsheet ergonomics

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On 4/1/17, 2:23 AM, in article ab9b03.gawe@rooftop.invalid, "owl"
<owl@rooftop.invalid> wrote:

...
>>> Nothing bizarre about it at all.  It's not much different from your
>>> embedded tables, which are also in frames (or whatever Apple calls
>>> the containers).
>>> 
>>> https://vid.me/Al6B
>> 
>> A cool, weird, and somewhat bizarre work around.
> 
> What is weird or bizarre about it?

Hint: show the whole process... how you embedded the windows, how you tied
them together, etc. Hey, let us each show that with four tables, all tied
together and having simple equations flow through them.

For consistency sake and to make things easy:

Table 1: numbers 1-20
Table 2: add 3 to each number
Table 3: multiple the results by 3
Table 4: subtract 9 from each number

Then have a graph showing the data from table 4.

Now I *know* it would be trivial to just have one table do that simple math.
Obviously. If I wanted to make this more real-world I would have us
replicate the magic system tables I have shown you (even there the math is
trivial but there is a reason for multiple tables). But that would take more
time -- this is just about the concept of having related tables and, in this
case, a simple graph.

To add to the challenge let us have it so the last two tables are on a
different tab... but the graph stays with the first two tables.

Here, after I wrote the rest of this post I decided to just do it... not
have you do it first or whatever. You can see I start with showing you the
file I shared with you online:

    <https://youtu.be/YfvQb8cxTBg>

I also do some fiddling with the size and even style of the chart to, I
guess, make it look prettier? No real use other than to show it. I do NO
other editing of the look of the table or anything like that (we can compare
those things later if we like). I do not even have a title or legend on the
chart (though you can see on the side it would be just a couple click to get
those).

So you can see the final product (and even modify it if you want):

<https://www.icloud.com/numbers/0m6a5IKo-pJFgG8dY32KU-f-A#Owl2>

Pretty sure you do not need an iCloud account to work with that.

>> Oh, Apple calls them "tables"... because they are, you know, tables. :)
> 
> The table is in a container.

Of course... and they are in windows which are also containers (and they are
in sheets and tabs, both of which are containers).
 
>>> That's the main.sc sheet from earlier, now embedded in a scribus window,
>>> and taking data from the other sheets.  Editing the other sheets shows
>>> those updates in the scribus sc window.  Both local and remote editing
>>> demonstrated.
>> 
>> It is pretty cool how even in different files they can be connected.
> 
> I wish there was more documentation.  Or at least more users
> sharing their experiences online.  Figuring out how to do things
> with sc involves a great deal of trial and error.

Fair enough... but that is to be expected with odd work-arounds, even cool
ones.

>>> Printed docs are static anyway, so it doesn't matter how you get to
>>> the result.  Documents shared for editing can just share the whole
>>> process if necessary.
>> 
>> As opposed to sharing a file
> 
> A tarball is a file.

Which contains a bunch of files (at least in this case) and they are not in
any way treated as a single file once they are in a usable format.
 
>> or even sharing it online
> 
> Ever heard of X11 forwarding?  It works great.

LOL! I am speaking of just letting people easily access and even edit the
stuff online. Here:

<https://www.icloud.com/numbers/0UHGZUxdd85R698KTKmddNd5w#For%5FOwl>

Again, I do not think you need an iCloud account to look at it or edit it...
not even to add tables (right now there is only one table and one chart).
Also notice I have it hooked to actual stock prices ... just a standard
template but I figured that would add some interest.

>> (though I think
>> someone needs to have an icloud.com account to use it).
>> 
>>>> Again, though, nothing wrong with sc and while Numbers does plenty it does
>>>> not, sc is a MUCH more powerful tool for "real" number crunching (as is
>>>> even
>>>> Excel).
>>> 
>>> Why do you say that?
>> 
>> Numbers does not handle very large tables, lacks some functions and
>> formatting, does not allow to lock specific ranges or cells as Excel does
>> (do not know if sc does that but I would not be surprised if it did not),
> 
> It does.

With password protection? If so that is news to me (though I am sure there
is a LOT it can do which I am unaware of... remember, have not touched it
since the '90s and even then only briefly).

>> has less robust import tools, etc. It does have some pretty cool other
>> features, and what it does it does (mostly) well, but it simply is not as
>> complete of a solution. I can show you some of the oddities I have seen with
>> referencing cells from other "sheets" from the same document... still works
>> but has some graphical oddities.
>> 
>> Started to make a video showing some of what I mean... got interrupted by my
>> 9 year old coming to my office to ask me about other stuff... talked to her
>> as I finished the video and then helped her as it was uploading. Did not
>> even bother to redo the video so lot so me just fiddling around but it is
>> only 2:16
>> 
>>     <https://youtu.be/pVA0efp0gb8>
>> 
>> Shows me using a real, but very simple, spreadsheet I had open then using a
>> template then one from scratch where I have one table reference another. Do
>> not show different sheets in the same file but that works much as it does in
>> MS Office and LibreOffice.
> 
> Pretty. 

And easy (and also why I included adding new sheets in the above)... but
lacking in many features / capabilities any "real" number cruncher would
need. It definitely is designed for light duty!

Numbers and sc are made for very different purposes... not trying to say
Numbers can do all sc can do, just showing some of the reasons why sc might
not be the best tool for all jobs (though if it works for you, cool).


-- 
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

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spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-03-31 11:48 +0000
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-31 09:20 -0500
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-31 10:07 -0500
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-03-31 12:23 -0700
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-03-31 23:19 +0000
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-03-31 19:08 -0700
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-01 05:22 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-03-31 22:50 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-01 09:23 +0000
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 09:50 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 04:45 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 23:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 08:58 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 08:59 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 00:14 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 17:33 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 01:46 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 19:24 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 04:53 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:20 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:40 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:17 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 21:24 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:32 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:53 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 19:38 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 13:01 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-03 20:54 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:16 -0700
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-01 11:47 -0400
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-01 11:21 -0500
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2017-04-02 10:44 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 15:02 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 13:35 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 15:39 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 13:52 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 07:49 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics William Poaster <wp@dev.null> - 2017-04-02 22:42 +0100
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-02 21:57 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 15:46 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-02 23:00 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 16:10 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2017-04-03 01:24 +0200
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics flatfish+++ <flatfish@cutey.com> - 2017-04-02 19:31 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 16:40 -0700
                Snit digest 386 / 2017-04-03 Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 07:56 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2017-04-03 09:47 +0200
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics flatfish+++ <flatfish@cutey.com> - 2017-04-03 12:17 -0400
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 10:57 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-03 11:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 16:34 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 19:49 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 18:00 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-02 21:36 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 19:45 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 08:09 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-03 10:43 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 11:05 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:08 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-03 16:14 -0500
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:18 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:29 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:33 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 22:09 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 14:26 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:39 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 15:06 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 08:02 +0000
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-03 11:48 -0700
                Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2017-04-03 21:59 +0000
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-01 09:56 -0700
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Steve Carroll <fretwizzer@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 10:12 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 05:01 +0000
  Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-04-01 04:53 -0400
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Marek Novotny <marek.novotny@marspolar.com> - 2017-04-01 08:30 -0500
    Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 05:00 +0000
      Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2017-04-02 09:01 -0400
        Re: spreadsheet ergonomics owl <owl@rooftop.invalid> - 2017-04-02 20:41 +0000
          Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 13:57 -0700
            Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Joe <Negrojoe@cottonpickers.edu> - 2017-04-02 21:10 +0000
              Re: spreadsheet ergonomics Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2017-04-02 14:22 -0700

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