Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs)

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs)
Followup-To	comp.theory
Date	2020-09-06 21:13 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87o8mibr3s.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <ppS4H.448992$AN2.84419@fx46.iad> <vZ6dnbyiavkSaM7CnZ2dnUU7-KfNnZ2d@giganews.com> <MhT4H.242305$Av7.52541@fx34.iad> <p4mdnfUDr99Jl8nCnZ2dnUU78YvNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> <d020882f-8afa-4ae0-9778-89e7cf0d0c41n@googlegroups.com>

Followups directed to: comp.theory

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I've set Followup-To: comp.theory because there is not C content, and
comp.theory is the place for this discussion.

Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

> On Saturday, 5 September 2020 at 23:02:11 UTC+1, Mike Terry wrote:
<cut>
>> But he's not going to give any details, so we'll just have to wait and 
>> see... 
>> 
> So far we don't have full description or explanation of how to invoke the
> halt decider on a small test case.

PO does not claim to have a halting decider (as you and I know the
term).  He has said he does, but that just him using terms in a
non-standard way.  In fact, the claim is only that his program gets the
right answer (about halting) in one exactly specified case.

> But it seems that most of the code
> isn't actually run, it's emulated under supervision. That might allow it to
> know its own recursion depth, which would be  away round the proof.

What do you mean by "a way round the proof"?

> There's a better argument against the halt decider than the paradox
> proof. Consider a Turing machine which answers one comuptational
> question with a true/false answer, like "is the 100th digit of PI greater
> than 5?". Then if the answer is true, it halts, if false, it goes into an
> infinite loop.
> Now our halt decider either has some faster way of computing the 100th
> digit of PI, or it has not. If it has, we replace our Turing machine with the
> faster method, and re-run the argument.  So now, our halt decider has 
> no faster way of computing the 100th digit of PI. So it must run the
> machine under test until the flag is calculated. Then it can decide whether
> the machine halts or not.

I think you are using the term "decider" in much the same way that PO
does.  The usual definition relates to infinite sets, not specific
programs.  A halt decider (in the standard sense) is program that
computes the characteristic function (the "is or is not a member"
function) for a some set.  I'm not sure how your argument extends to the
standard meaning of the term.  Such a halt decider obviously can't have
special logic for specific problems, so there would be nothing to
replace.

From a rather dim memory, this is reminiscent of Chaitin's proof, but
that uses algorithmic complexity than about speed, and it is a proof of
the nonexistence of the usual universal halt decider.

> However there is nothing special about binary questions, or the final
> few states. We can replace ("loops infinitely if the answer is false") with
> "enters an infinitie loop when the calculation gets into a certain state and
> tape  format" We can maybe show for some cases that there is no such state,
> or that the machine must always enter it, but we can't solve the problem for
> the general case without running machine. Nor is there anything special about
> infinite loops. We can't analyse a Turing machine with another Turing
> machine without running it, in the general case. Obviously, because the
> analyser is another Turing machine. When put like this, the tautology becomes
> obvious.

Not to me, unfortunately.  What tautology becomes obvious?

-- 
Ben.

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Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 15:19 -0500
  Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 19:17 -0500
    Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-31 08:47 -0500
    Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 007 [Mapping x86 to Turing Equivalent] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 22:30 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-30 20:43 -0400
    Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 20:21 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 09:55 -0500
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 09:45 -0700
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 12:03 -0500
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-03 06:12 -0600
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 09:46 -0500
        Re: Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-09-03 14:23 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-03 21:28 +0100
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 16:51 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-03 23:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 17:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 01:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 20:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 20:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 02:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 21:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 03:37 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 08:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 06:38 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 08:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 07:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 09:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 08:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 10:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 08:35 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 11:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 17:22 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 11:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:35 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 12:20 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 15:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 15:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 03:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 09:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:55 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 14:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 13:23 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 15:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 18:24 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 15:28 -0500
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 16:16 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 12:05 -0500
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:02 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-03 22:44 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2020-09-04 11:09 -0700
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:34 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:21 -0500
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 09:49 -0400
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 09:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 11:03 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 11:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 10:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 12:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 11:42 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 13:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 12:33 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 14:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 16:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 15:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 17:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-05 23:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-05 17:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 21:12 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 21:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-06 04:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 22:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 22:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 08:47 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 11:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-06 11:43 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 02:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-06 21:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 17:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 20:23 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 21:51 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 16:43 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 20:45 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:10 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:43 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:59 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-07 10:05 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 09:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-07 02:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 03:08 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-07 10:13 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 07:38 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 09:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 08:02 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 10:30 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 08:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 10:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 09:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-07 22:23 +0100
                Cranks (was: Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness ...) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-07 05:54 +0000
                Re: Cranks Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-08 06:40 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 15:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 16:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 15:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 21:33 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:30 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:29 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:28 -0600
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:40 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 12:32 -0700
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) adultfriendfindercom08@gmail.com - 2020-09-04 04:51 -0700

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