Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation)

Subject	Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation)
Newsgroups	comp.theory, comp.lang.c, comp.ai.philosophy
References	(7 earlier) <KYednTPrD_Xb8czCnZ2dnUU78VmdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> <TKudnfR-9s8m88zCnZ2dnUU7-RfNnZ2d@giganews.com> <F_mdnde-tLkhDczCnZ2dnUU78RfNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> <9s2dnaY4bdXpBczCnZ2dnUU7-Q_NnZ2d@giganews.com> <vdWdncYVKYIuAczCnZ2dnUU78XPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>
From	olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
Date	2020-09-03 21:08 -0500
Message-ID	<5aidnTTqPtASPMzCnZ2dnUU7-R-dnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 9/3/2020 8:47 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
> On 04/09/2020 02:29, olcott wrote:
>> On 9/3/2020 7:56 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>> On 03/09/2020 23:31, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 9/3/2020 5:20 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>> On 03/09/2020 22:51, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/3/2020 3:28 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/09/2020 20:23, Kent Dickey wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <LfmdnRXy2Lp9nMzCnZ2dnUU7-QvNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>>>>>>> olcott  <NoOne@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm going to summarize this, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A proof of the impossibility of constructing a Turing Mahcine which
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> determine if all possible Turing Machines complete is at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP(Pages_315-320).pdf  
>>>>>>>> Theorem
>>>>>>>> 12.1.
>>>>>>>> It's well written and easy to read even if you know little about
>>>>>>>> Turing
>>>>>>>> Machine, and you don't even need to follow the equations to get the
>>>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It works by assuming H is the Turing Machine (TM) which can
>>>>>>>> determine
>>>>>>>> if any
>>>>>>>> other TM halts.  It then constructs an H' by adding two states that
>>>>>>>> infinitely loop between each other, and H_Hat by copying the input
>>>>>>>> string.
>>>>>>>> It shows that running H_Hat on itself (basically) leads to
>>>>>>>> contradictions.  Therefore H cannot exist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe olcott believes that if he constucts a Turing Machine
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> detect if some programs halt (call this Turing Machine H2); and
>>>>>>>> then he
>>>>>>>> modifies H2 to form H2' and H2_Hat (by adding the extra states that
>>>>>>>> H' and
>>>>>>>> H_Hat had above) then the contradiction doesn't apply.  And that
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> then show the original proof was wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is incorrect.  Applying the same construction to his H2 (a TM
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> detects that some programs halt) does not lead to the same
>>>>>>>> contradiction, and
>>>>>>>> so doesn't "prove" anything.  The contradiction occurs in the
>>>>>>>> original
>>>>>>>> proof only since H is defined to work on all TMs, including H_Hat.
>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>> wouldn't be true of his new H2_Hat, so the same contradiction
>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>>> In fact, it would likely be easy to show his H2_Hat leads to no
>>>>>>>> contradictions.  But that just shows that H2 can exist (and we know
>>>>>>>> it exists,
>>>>>>>> he's constructed it).  This doesn't say anything about the original
>>>>>>>> proof.
>>>>>>>> H2 is not H.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not exactly what's going on.  PO's claim is (or would be,
>>>>>>> if he
>>>>>>> got it right) that:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a)  his H2_Hat is correcly constructed from H2, according to the
>>>>>>> specification in the Linz book that you've read.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> b)  his H2 correctly decides the termination of H2_Hat (H2_Hat).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also he claims a bit more: that H2 decides some further classes of
>>>>>>> program executions, but notably not ALL program executions.  And 
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> stuff about H2_Hat deciding something, which doesn't make sense 
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>> H2_Hat is not a "decider" although maybe he has his own meaning for
>>>>>>> that word.  It doesn't matter, (a) and (b) are what matters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/84433/what-is-decider
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    The term decider doesn't really have a standard meaning.
>>>>>>    In fact, it is lamentable that Sipser chose the terms
>>>>>>    decider and recognizer, since they seem to confuse students.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Intuitively, a decider should be a Turing machine that
>>>>>>    given an input, halts and either accepts or rejects,
>>>>>>    relaying its answer in one of many equivalent ways,
>>>>>>    such as halting at an ACCEPT or REJECT state, or leaving
>>>>>>    its answer on the output tape.
>>>>>  >
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that your usage?  Then your H_Hat is not a decider by your
>>>>> definition.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Literally decider means to make a decision at least once. Historical
>>>> computer science usage indicates that any TM that does nothing besides
>>>> immediately halt <is> a decider.
>>>>
>>>> The key thing is that it does correctly decide the "impossible" case in
>>>> a way that a Turing machine would always make the same decision on 
>>>> every
>>>> instance of this "impossible" case that the x86 progam correctly
>>>> decides.
>>>
>>> That is nonsensical in several ways, but there's no point in debating
>>> it.  Just deliver what you're going to deliver and we'll go from 
>>> there...
>>
>> We must to come to a mutual understanding in advance of exactly what
>> would constitute a refutation of the halting problem proofs.
>>
>> I will not allow anyone to see what I have until we have very high
>> agreement across very many people of that sufficient basis.
>>
>> The only way that I can guarantee that my work will get a fair and
>> sufficient review is to have every detail of the minimum sufficient
>> basis totally specified in advance.
>>
>> What is the minimum sufficient basis that would unequivocally establish
>> that I have refuted the halting problem proofs?
> 
> I've said this a few times since 2018, but why would anyone promise you 
> anything in advance of this?  It's you who want to achieve world-wide 
> recognition of your genius, but if you aren't willing to publish then 
> don't - that's ok too.  Nobody else is expecting to get anything out of 
> this, so nobody will be disappointed!  :)
> 
> Really, if you find someone elsewhere willing to make promises to you 
> before you show them, then by all means show it to them first, and only 
> show it to us they've confirmed you're a bona-fide genius.  No problem..
> 
> Mike.

I know that I have the minimum sufficient basis yet I don't  trust 
anyone here, except possibly you to give me a fair evaluation.

If I derived an actual cure for cancer Ben would find some excuse to 
reject it on the basis of a misplaced comma.


-- 
Copyright 2020 Pete Olcott

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Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 15:19 -0500
  Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 19:17 -0500
    Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-31 08:47 -0500
    Re: Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 007 [Mapping x86 to Turing Equivalent] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 22:30 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-08-30 20:43 -0400
    Transforming "C" into a Turing equivalent language 001 [Providing unlimited memory access to C] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-30 20:21 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 09:55 -0500
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-02 09:45 -0700
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-02 12:03 -0500
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-03 06:12 -0600
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 09:46 -0500
        Re: Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) kegs@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) - 2020-09-03 14:23 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-03 21:28 +0100
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 16:51 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-03 23:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 17:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 01:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 20:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 20:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 02:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 21:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 03:37 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 08:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 06:38 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 08:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 07:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 09:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 08:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 10:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 08:35 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 11:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-04 17:22 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 11:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 10:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:35 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 12:20 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 15:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 13:35 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 15:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-05 03:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 09:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 11:55 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 14:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-04 13:23 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 15:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 18:24 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 15:28 -0500
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 16:16 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 12:05 -0500
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-03 22:02 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-03 22:44 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) red floyd <no.spam.here@its.invalid> - 2020-09-04 11:09 -0700
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-04 13:34 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:21 -0500
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 09:49 -0400
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 09:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 11:03 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 11:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 10:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 12:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 11:42 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 13:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 12:33 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 14:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 16:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 15:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 17:19 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-05 23:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-09-05 17:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-05 21:12 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 21:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2020-09-06 04:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 22:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 22:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 08:47 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 11:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-06 11:43 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 13:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 02:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-06 21:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 17:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 20:23 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 21:51 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 16:43 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 20:45 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:10 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:43 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:59 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-07 10:05 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 09:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-07 02:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 03:08 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-07 10:13 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 07:38 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 09:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 08:02 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 10:30 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 08:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-07 10:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 09:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-07 22:23 +0100
                Cranks (was: Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness ...) Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-07 05:54 +0000
                Re: Cranks Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-08 06:40 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 15:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 16:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-06 15:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 21:33 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 20:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-09-06 22:30 -0400
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-06 21:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:29 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-09-05 15:28 -0600
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation Sufficiency Specs) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-09-05 00:40 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (HP refutation) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-03 12:32 -0700
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V52 (Machine equivalence) adultfriendfindercom08@gmail.com - 2020-09-04 04:51 -0700

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