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Re: Hypothetical possibilities

From joes <noreply@example.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Hypothetical possibilities
Date 2024-07-20 21:06 +0000
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <73e4850d3b48903cf85b2967ba713aced98caf96@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References <v7gl30$3j9fi$1@dont-email.me> <v7h1fl$3lcvq$3@dont-email.me> <v7h224$3li66$3@dont-email.me> <e975eef57ba6d3d4cc790818c05b7165443f7ce4@i2pn2.org> <v7h5b2$3m6kq$2@dont-email.me>

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Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 15:05:53 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 7/20/2024 2:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 7/20/24 3:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/20/2024 2:00 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 20.jul.2024 om 17:28 schreef olcott:

>>>>> (a) Termination Analyzers / Partial Halt Deciders must halt this is
>>>>> a design requirement.
>>>>> (b) Every simulating termination analyzer HHH either aborts the
>>>>> simulation of its input or not.
>>>>> (c) Within the hypothetical case where HHH does not abort the
>>>>> simulation of its input {HHH, emulated DDD and executed DDD}
>>>>> never stop running.
>>>>> This violates the design requirement of (a) therefore HHH must abort
>>>>> the simulation of its input.
You missed a couple details:
A terminating input shouldn't be aborted, or at least not classified
as not terminating. Terminating inputs needn't be aborted; they and the
simulator halt on their own.

>>>> And when it aborts, the simulation is incorrect. When HHH aborts and
>>>> halts, it is not needed to abort its simulation, because it will halt
>>>> of its own.
>>> So you are trying to get away with saying that no HHH ever needs to
>>> abort the simulation of its input and HHH will stop running?
Pretty much.
>> It is the fact that HHH DOES abort its simulation that makes it not
>> need to.
> No stupid it is not a fact that every HHH that can possibly exist aborts
> its simulation.
I thought they all halt after a finite number of steps?

-- 
Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math:
It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.

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Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 10:28 -0500
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 12:01 -0400
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 13:52 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:38 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:00 +0200
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 14:09 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-20 21:36 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:02 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 16:10 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:29 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:04 -0400
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:24 +0200
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:20 +0200
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 20:03 +0000
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:08 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-20 21:19 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 11:06 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:25 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:25 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation (was: Hypothetical possibilities) joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:37 +0000
                Re: Recursive simulation olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:53 -0500
                Re: Recursive simulation "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:45 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:42 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 20:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:41 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:15 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-20 16:45 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:25 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 12:34 +0200
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:27 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:10 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:02 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 11:10 -0500
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:11 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-22 18:33 +0000
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Liar? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:39 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 15:00 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away denying tautologies "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:35 +0200
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:26 +0300
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-23 17:38 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:12 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:47 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric --- Dishonest reviews that ignore what I say Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:15 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 21:51 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Olcott is a Mindless robots programmed to disagree Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 23:09 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Mindless robots programmed to disagree "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:13 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Fake rebuttals trying to get away with mere rhetoric Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:49 +0300
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Alan Mackenzie tries to get away with mere rhetoric as a rebuttal olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2024-07-22 10:53 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 15:50 -0400
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 15:05 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-20 21:06 +0000
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:17 -0400
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 16:21 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 18:11 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 17:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 19:00 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 18:06 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 20:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 19:21 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:46 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:52 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:23 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:01 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:14 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:31 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 09:05 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:19 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:33 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:37 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:15 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 07:37 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:24 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 09:34 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-21 14:54 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 10:08 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-21 18:51 +0200
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical IMpossibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 23:49 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 07:27 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 07:47 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities -- I reread this again more carefully --- correction olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 23:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:35 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 21:51 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 20:54 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:05 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 21:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 22:55 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 23:50 -0400
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 17:10 -0400
  Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 14:05 +0300
    Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:05 -0500
      Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:32 +0300
        Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:41 -0500
          Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-24 12:01 +0300
            Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-24 08:38 -0500
              Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-26 11:05 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-26 08:58 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-27 09:54 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 08:55 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:28 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:45 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:59 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 10:30 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception based rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:12 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:10 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:20 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-29 20:20 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 15:36 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:41 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 13:42 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:21 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 20:32 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 21:34 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 21:13 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid lying rebuttal by Olcott --- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal by Olcott--- Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-30 23:19 -0400
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal --- olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 23:09 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:04 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:17 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-30 09:44 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- stupid rebuttal olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:11 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:41 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2024-07-27 14:50 +0000
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-27 09:59 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:21 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-29 11:25 -0500
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- Sipser approved criteria Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-28 11:13 +0300
                Re: Hypothetical possibilities --- strawman deception olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-30 16:35 -0500

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