Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???

Message-ID	<63acb715@news.ausics.net> (permalink)
From	not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Subject	Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
References	(3 earlier) <-_-dnbdq0bqGnwH-nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com> <87sfhfx3gz.fsf@usenet.ankman.de> <6KycnZ4e4cec9gD-nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@earthlink.com> <tnkj8k$3lupf$2@dont-email.me> <RaicnaQDnIVVfTb-nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
Date	2022-12-29 07:37 +1000
Organization	Ausics - https://www.ausics.net

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26C.Z969 <26C.Z969@noaada.net> wrote:
> On 12/17/22 9:21 AM, Rich wrote:
>> What would this 'smarter' replacement do, given what happened "not so
>> long ago"?
> 
>   I am currently studying "AI" pattern-recognition techniques.
>   So far as I can surmise, distributed attacks seem to follow
>   certain *patterns*, also tend to re-use undefended IP addresses.
>   These are things an "AI" can be trained to detect - and then
>   train itself to do even better.
> 
>   Any human can look at a log or two and say "Attack !" - IMHO
>   The System ought to be able to do that by itself, and learn
>   and educate other systems.

The most effective response to a distributed attack will just be
for it to block _all_ SSH connections, with effectiveness
decreasing from that point as it invents ways to try and ID real
humans. But I don't see how those ways can be reliable - it can
only end up blocking genuine users who happen to pop up in an IP
range that's also used by attackers, or who'se software
configuration happens to look like an attacker's. That in turn is
likely to cause more trouble than a brute-force attack would have.

I don't see how a human looking at logs is supposed to solve this
problem, let alone an AI.

>   This is NOT far from the existing concept of SPAM blacklists
>   but I want slightly more general, and evolving, rules.

Yeah exactly, it would make SSH log-in as hopelessly unreliable as
email delivery. Oh wait, you think SPAM blacklists _are_ actually
smart...

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-15 01:52 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 08:39 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 10:09 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:33 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:19 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:12 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:05 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:21 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:03 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2022-12-19 15:46 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 16:30 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:27 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:10 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:26 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:11 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:11 +0100
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:22 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:26 +0000
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2022-12-15 14:55 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:16 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:26 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 20:49 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:45 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 23:32 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-12-15 18:03 +0100
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:36 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:28 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 01:33 -0500
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:08 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:21 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-28 01:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-29 07:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:02 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-29 01:33 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 21:06 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2022-12-30 04:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:33 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:12 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:31 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-30 19:09 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 20:38 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 01:00 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-31 20:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2023-01-01 00:17 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:21 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:20 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 10:30 +0100
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:29 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-16 21:44 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:31 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2022-12-17 12:59 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 00:22 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-19 17:50 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:13 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:25 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 00:51 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 11:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 12:02 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 20:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:24 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:08 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-20 22:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 09:35 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-24 21:29 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-28 09:06 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:18 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-18 14:21 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 21:08 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-19 00:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:26 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 22:17 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:40 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:27 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:46 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 14:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 16:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 20:58 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-17 07:58 +1000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 21:24 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 02:03 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 03:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:43 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:13 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 23:35 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-18 18:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:59 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 10:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:20 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-23 22:36 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-23 23:26 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:14 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-26 20:01 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 16:59 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-24 14:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:44 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-27 08:33 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 17:58 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:51 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 13:49 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:29 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:41 +0100
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:41 -0500
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 00:20 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2023-01-10 19:52 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-13 21:21 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-01-13 23:03 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2023-01-13 21:48 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:39 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 10:40 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 11:14 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 11:39 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 14:04 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 14:28 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 15:26 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-01-14 01:47 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 11:24 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 16:57 +0000

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