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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #36554

Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???

Subject Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
References (5 earlier) <tnhea9$3bglv$10@dont-email.me> <wwvbko3jj7p.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <tnilb0$1qdhe$1@news1.tnib.de> <6sScnWpDiqXc7QD-nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <EDOdnU4lN668IAD-nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com>
From "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net>
Date 2022-12-19 00:22 -0500
Message-ID <b5Ocnd4ewtq8aAL-nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

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On 12/17/22 7:59 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sat, 17 Dec 2022 02:31:12 -0500 "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 12/16/22 3:44 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>>> On 16/12/2022 09:30, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>>> One idea would be to automatically block the IPs that try to login
>>>>>> as root or other typical names used by bots.
>>>>>> That's something a human operator would do.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why bother? they would then go on to bother someone else, possibly
>>>>> with less bandwidth than I.
>>>>>
>>>>> If they want to spend an hour trying every single password in their
>>>>> dictionary, its no skin off my nose.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve got better uses for my CPU[1] than key agreement with low-rent
>>>> attackers, and better uses for my logs than background error noise.
>>>
>>> It's matter of style, both ways to do it have their advantages and
>>> their disadvantages. It's nothing to get missionary over.
>>
>>     Strictly "human" attackers are pretty much a historical
>>     artifact at this point - unless you're a bank or govt
>>     letter agency or some similar high-profile/high-return
>>     target. For the rest of the world it's all BOTS - busy
>>     busy little bots. They WILL try every password in their
>>     book and then start on the random shit. They will come
>>     at you from a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand IP
>>     ripped-off addresses. They will keep at it for days,
>>     months. Just one of a thousand little bot processes
>>     running on a few boxes in Romania or Russia that link
>>     through "friendly"-looking address ranges (DigitalOcean
>>     seems to be the most popular route, the Netherlands
>>     seems to be THE path Russians use to APPEAR to be
>>     "EU").
>>
>>     Been there, see it.
>>
>>     SSH isn't "smart" enough to see what a human can
>>     plainly see - an attack. We need some "AI" sort
>>     of adjunct at this point.
>>
>>     Yea, there ARE other tricks - narrow the IP range that
>>     the firewall will even let GET at yer SSH port - but
>>     that's not a solution for all.
>>
>>     A smarter SSH, one intentionally designed for this
>>     bot-ridden world, is needed.
> 
> Not really, a program that analyses SSH's log file can do that.  Oh, wait, it
> already exists: fail2ban.  Hmm...  Maybe just a smarter fail2ban?

   fail2ban is NOT a bad thing. COULD be smartened-up
   a bit, everything can.

   SSH is mostly just a protocol, a port, a few
   sets of rules. I can write one - but I just
   do not have the skills and nuance to fully
   grasp all the ways the Bad Guys (or idiots)
   can abuse the service these days. That's
   kinda a specialty area.

   I've mentioned "AI" ... in that I mean mechanisms
   to detect a *pattern* that indicates attacks -vs-
   the usual traffic. HUMANS can spot it pretty easily
   but not software at this juncture. HUMANS can decide
   to make dynamic adjustments, but the software is
   kinda oblivious.

   One thing especially I am wondering about ... the
   distributed attacks, are they likely to be using
   a subset of IP addresses in certain ways ? If so,
   "AI" might be able to pick them out - and, like
   with anti-spam services - upload the findings to
   some general DBs so the intelligence level keeps
   increasing.

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Thread

Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-15 01:52 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 08:39 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 10:09 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:33 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:19 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:12 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:05 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:21 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:03 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2022-12-19 15:46 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 16:30 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:27 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:10 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:26 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:11 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:11 +0100
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:22 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:26 +0000
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2022-12-15 14:55 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:16 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:26 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 20:49 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:45 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 23:32 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-12-15 18:03 +0100
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:36 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:28 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 01:33 -0500
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:08 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:21 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-28 01:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-29 07:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:02 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-29 01:33 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 21:06 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2022-12-30 04:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:33 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:12 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:31 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-30 19:09 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 20:38 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 01:00 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-31 20:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2023-01-01 00:17 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:21 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:20 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 10:30 +0100
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:29 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-16 21:44 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:31 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2022-12-17 12:59 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 00:22 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-19 17:50 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:13 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:25 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 00:51 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 11:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 12:02 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 20:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:24 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:08 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-20 22:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 09:35 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-24 21:29 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-28 09:06 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:18 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-18 14:21 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 21:08 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-19 00:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:26 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 22:17 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:40 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:27 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:46 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 14:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 16:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 20:58 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-17 07:58 +1000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 21:24 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 02:03 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 03:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:43 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:13 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 23:35 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-18 18:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:59 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 10:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:20 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-23 22:36 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-23 23:26 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:14 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-26 20:01 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 16:59 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-24 14:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:44 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-27 08:33 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 17:58 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:51 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 13:49 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:29 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:41 +0100
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:41 -0500
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 00:20 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2023-01-10 19:52 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-13 21:21 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-01-13 23:03 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2023-01-13 21:48 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:39 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 10:40 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 11:14 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 11:39 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 14:04 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 14:28 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 15:26 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-01-14 01:47 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 11:24 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 16:57 +0000

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