Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???

Subject	Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
References	<y-ycndVmEZmnWQf-nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <tnfch7$33uu5$1@dont-email.me> <dM6cnVBFo_qAYgb-nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <tnhdk8$3bglv$6@dont-email.me>
From	"26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net>
Date	2022-12-17 20:49 -0500
Message-ID	<xaSdnffGtOpZ7AP-nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

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On 12/16/22 4:26 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 16/12/2022 05:16, 26C.Z969 wrote:
>> On 12/15/22 9:55 AM, Lew Pitcher wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 01:52:41 -0500, 26C.Z969 wrote:
>>>
>>>> SSH is a good oldie for sure. However, it seems to be increasingly 
>>>> unfit
>>>> for the modern realities.
>>> [snip]
>>>> I mean REPLACE it entirely with a clean new solution. Too much
>>>> feature-creep on old apps is never a good idea.
>>>
>>> While I don't agree with you (I think that your observed problems
>>> are likely caused more by operator error than aged software), I
>>> have no problems with YOU attempting to replace ssh with something
>>> better. Have at it, my friend.
>>>
>>> Once YOU write a stable and featurefull replacement for ssh, please
>>> let us know.
>>>
>>> Luck be with you
>>
>>    In the end I may HAVE to ... but not my idea
>>    of fun. Replacing SSH really needs to be a
>>    "community effort" drawing from a lot of
>>    expertise and experience with broad agreement
>>    involved.
>>
>>    Or is all this already behind the curve ? SO much
>>    access is now via browser-based apps.
>>
>>    SolarWinds will sell you some great stuff ....
>>
> 
> Just build a wrapper - a sort of modern inetd - that requires 
> simultaneous access on three ports to open one of them to any service.

   "Port knocking" and relatives are nothing new.
   And yes, they WILL keep out the rabble, unless
   the rabble is motivated to monitor every packet
   coming in and out for days/weeks and the spend
   a lot longer in analysis.

   But every layer also adds "inconvenience" for
   the legit users. They also need custom software
   to, for example, light up the correct other
   ports so they can access the real one.

   Thing is, any human can, looking at the usual
   kinds of logs, immediately spot an aggressor.
   Computers normally don't see that however -
   so perhaps a broader solution is to make it
   so they CAN ... apply a little "AI" ... what
   does an attack "look like"  ?

> Proper packaged port knocker. Might already be one.

   There are.

> SSH is a perfectly adequate protocol that only purists find inadequate.

   Ten years ago I'd have agreed ... but now with massive
   distributed attacks becoming the norm even for the script
   kiddies ........

   The inbuilt defenses of SSH just weren't made for those
   sorts of attacks. You can add wrappers, then more wrappers,
   until you have a fragile mess - but a ground-up replacement
   seems "better" somehow.

   And "security" is never "purist" ... it's VITAL.

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Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-15 01:52 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 08:39 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 10:09 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:33 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:19 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:12 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:05 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:21 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:03 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2022-12-19 15:46 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 16:30 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:27 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:10 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:26 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:11 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:11 +0100
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:22 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:26 +0000
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2022-12-15 14:55 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:16 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:26 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 20:49 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:45 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 23:32 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-12-15 18:03 +0100
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:36 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:28 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 01:33 -0500
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:08 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:21 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-28 01:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-29 07:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:02 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-29 01:33 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 21:06 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2022-12-30 04:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:33 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:12 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:31 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-30 19:09 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 20:38 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 01:00 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-31 20:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2023-01-01 00:17 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:21 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:20 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 10:30 +0100
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:29 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-16 21:44 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:31 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2022-12-17 12:59 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 00:22 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-19 17:50 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:13 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:25 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 00:51 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 11:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 12:02 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 20:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:24 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:08 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-20 22:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 09:35 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-24 21:29 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-28 09:06 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:18 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-18 14:21 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 21:08 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-19 00:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:26 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 22:17 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:40 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:27 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:46 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 14:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 16:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 20:58 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-17 07:58 +1000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 21:24 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 02:03 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 03:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:43 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:13 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 23:35 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-18 18:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:59 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 10:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:20 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-23 22:36 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-23 23:26 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:14 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-26 20:01 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 16:59 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-24 14:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:44 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-27 08:33 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 17:58 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:51 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 13:49 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:29 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:41 +0100
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:41 -0500
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 00:20 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2023-01-10 19:52 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-13 21:21 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-01-13 23:03 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2023-01-13 21:48 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:39 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 10:40 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 11:14 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 11:39 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 14:04 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 14:28 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 15:26 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-01-14 01:47 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 11:24 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 16:57 +0000

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