Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???

Subject	Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ???
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
References	(8 earlier) <6sScnWpDiqXc7QD-nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <tnkjgv$3lupf$3@dont-email.me> <k07306F9603U1@mid.individual.net> <wwvfsddkllt.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <tnmvgr$3v0v1$10@dont-email.me>
From	"26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net>
Date	2022-12-18 20:57 -0500
Message-ID	<gXWdnbX9bNyOWAL-nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

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On 12/18/22 7:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 18/12/2022 11:16, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
>>> On 17/12/2022 15.25, Rich wrote:
>>>> Please detail what your proposed 'smarter' ssh would do given this
>>>> situation.
>>>> And, while you are at it, please explain why this should be an
>>>> activity
>>>> that ssh concerns itself with (thereby adding significant complexity)
>>>> as opposed to this being a network monitoring layer, separate from ssh,
>>>> that monitors and remediates things on behalf of ssh and any other
>>>> services.
>>>
>>> Monitoring logs is a kludge.
>>
>> If you want SSH to block attackers directly that would be a fairly
>> simple change to an SSH server. Designing a new secure remote login
>> protocol just for that would be a bizarre choice.
>>
>> Personally I think the current architecture is a good example of
>> decoupling.
>>
>> I can see a better argument for using PAM to trigger the blocking
>> (perhaps already possible with pam_exec). That would (in principle)
>> allow for uniform reporting from SSH, mosh, RDP, etc. Again, though, it
>> wouldn’t justify the OP’s requirement for a completely new protocol,
>> which still seems to lack any coherent motivation.
>>
> He just likes 'new shiny thing, make everything better'
> Creeping featurism as a substitute for genuine progress.

   Ain't gonna be any "genuine progress" using todays
   SSH.

   All I did here was ASK A QUESTION ... "Is SSH good
   enough anymore ?".

   And I still don't think so.

   World's changed. Change with it or be eaten.

   There are MUCH better programmers out there than
   myself with a LOT more nuanced experience dealing
   with net security problems. Time for some of them
   to cast an eye on this. Sure, I can break out the
   'C' compiler and write an internet service BUT
   there are so many facets to writing a "better SSH"
   that'll cope with all the challenges ... I just
   ain't the guy. This will take a little "AI" and
   that's not my strong suite.

   Even the stupidist, brute force, distributed attack
   amounts to "denial of service". All yer password
   and port-knocking trix won't help much there. Not
   entirely sure if that can be dealt with ON *YOUR* BOX,
   but maybe. I'm hoping distributed attacks show a
   *pattern* that 'AI' can recognize and filter ... and
   pass "likely-abused IP addresses" to an online DB in
   the same fashion as e-mail blacklists. That's IQ
   which grows.

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Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-15 01:52 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 08:39 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-15 10:09 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:33 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:19 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:12 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:05 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:21 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:03 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2022-12-19 15:46 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 16:30 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:27 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:10 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:26 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:11 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:11 +0100
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:22 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:26 +0000
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2022-12-15 14:55 +0000
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:16 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:26 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 20:49 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:45 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 23:32 -0500
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-12-15 18:03 +0100
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-15 18:36 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-16 00:28 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 01:33 -0500
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:08 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:21 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-28 01:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-29 07:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:02 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-29 01:33 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 21:06 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2022-12-30 04:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:33 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:23 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:12 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 14:31 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-30 19:09 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-30 20:38 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-31 01:00 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2022-12-31 20:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2023-01-01 00:17 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:21 +0000
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:20 +0000
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-16 10:30 +0100
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 09:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-16 18:29 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-16 21:44 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 07:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-17 02:31 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2022-12-17 12:59 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 00:22 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-19 17:50 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:13 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2022-12-17 14:25 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 00:51 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 11:16 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 12:02 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 20:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 10:05 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:24 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 09:08 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-20 22:57 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 09:35 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-24 21:29 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-28 09:06 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:18 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-12-18 14:21 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-18 21:08 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-19 00:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-19 11:26 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 22:17 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:40 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 12:27 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-19 21:46 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-17 08:58 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 14:24 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 16:14 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> - 2022-12-20 20:58 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-17 07:58 +1000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-16 21:24 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 02:03 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 03:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:43 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:13 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-18 23:35 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-18 18:47 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-19 00:59 +0100
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-29 00:32 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-12-17 10:30 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-17 20:20 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-23 22:36 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2022-12-23 23:26 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:14 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-26 20:01 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 16:59 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2022-12-24 14:37 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:44 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2022-12-27 08:33 +1000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 17:58 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:51 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 13:49 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-26 01:29 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2022-12-17 12:41 +0100
  Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2022-12-26 19:41 -0500
    Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z969" <26C.Z969@noaada.net> - 2022-12-27 00:20 -0500
      Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2023-01-10 19:52 -0500
        Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-01-13 21:21 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-01-13 23:03 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2023-01-13 21:48 -0500
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:39 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 10:40 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 11:14 +0000
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 11:39 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2023-01-14 14:04 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 14:28 +0000
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 15:26 +0000
          Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 03:38 +0000
            Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-01-14 01:47 -0500
              Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-01-14 11:24 -0500
                Re: Is It Time To Replace SSH ??? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-14 16:57 +0000

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