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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #79746
| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.misc |
| Subject | Re: The Web (HTML) Sux |
| Date | 2025-12-23 13:41 -0800 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <20251223134153.00005fb0@gmail.com> (permalink) |
| References | (11 earlier) <10icj90$3snlp$2@dont-email.me> <20251222153725.000058b6@gmail.com> <10icl7j$3t6jc$2@dont-email.me> <20251223095921.00004fba@gmail.com> <10ieujr$hok8$6@dont-email.me> |
On Tue, 23 Dec 2025 20:38:19 -0000 (UTC) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: > > For myself, I am entirely comfortable saying that overwrought, > > kludgy, and (especially) abusive patterns are *objectively bad web > > design,* in the same way that the people in charge of Grenfell Tower > > were engaging in objectively bad architectural renovations ... > > Boy, what a way to escalate a strawman, conflating a matter of mere > aesthetics and personal annoyance with a situation that was actually > life-threatening on a massive scale. *A.* that's not what a straw-man argument is (that'd be if the behavior in question were not actually evidenced in real life - but I cited very real patterns and gave a specific IRL example, and can absolutely offer more,) and *B.* while I freely admit to using a hyperbolic comparison to make a point, the point is one I stand by: Arguing that web design is purely a matter of taste and objections to specific practices are Just, Like, Your Opinion, Man is, essentially, arguing that the design and implementation of systems for use by the general public is something where there are no real standards and no consequences to shoddy workmanship. This is, as the Kids These Days say, a *bad take.* Obviously, having trouble with a misbehaving website is a smaller thing than burning to death in a badly-renovated apartment building.* But even in the little things - every pointless extra step, unneccessary delay due to lazy, inefficient implementation, thing that has to be re- done thanks to a buggy form, or irritating search for a feature buried under baroque UI or incompatible CSS is seconds - minutes? hours? - off of *someone's* life, maybe multiple someones', maybe *many people's.* * (Though I'd note that far too many emergency-services departments and healthcare providers are farming their online presence out to the lowest bidder, these days, and it's distinctly possible that there's a real-world death toll for that. And for that matter, I'd bet that the ever-increasing disenfranchisement of People Without Smartphones by utility companies has had IRL impacts on people's well-being. Or how about that major overhaul of Australia's Bureau of Meteorology website, for a nice recent and highly-publicized example? People can absolutely die thanks to buggy or inaccessible weather services.) In a very low-key kind of way, shoddy workmanship is statistical murder. Nik Suresh wrote a piece on that theme, some years ago, and it's stuck with me ever since: https://ludic.mataroa.blog/blog/i-killed-superman/
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Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 15:13 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-12-20 16:24 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Diego Garcia <dg@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-20 16:33 +0000
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Re: The Web (HTML) Sux 🇵🇱Jacek Marcin Jaworski🇵🇱 <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> - 2025-12-20 21:10 +0100
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Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-20 20:45 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:04 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:08 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:03 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 11:27 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 13:52 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 18:17 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-21 22:42 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-12-22 01:50 -0500
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-22 08:14 +1000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 13:58 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 22:27 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 14:43 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 23:12 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-22 15:37 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-22 23:45 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 01:50 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 02:20 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 09:59 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 20:38 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 13:41 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:45 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 14:19 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:45 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 12:15 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-27 07:56 +1000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:06 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:54 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 18:57 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 22:48 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-23 15:23 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 23:40 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:59 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:08 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:58 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-23 23:51 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-24 00:49 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 12:50 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:10 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 18:09 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-23 21:18 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 06:25 -0600
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-24 19:11 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 20:01 -0600
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:18 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 21:34 -0600
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:49 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 22:01 -0600
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 04:52 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux kouya <kouyaheika@canithesis.org> - 2025-12-24 23:07 -0600
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-25 12:33 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2025-12-25 12:30 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:45 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:16 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-12-29 19:14 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-25 03:30 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-25 21:05 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-25 22:11 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:55 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-12-26 18:12 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-26 18:45 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 19:23 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 21:09 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-25 22:38 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 07:13 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-26 08:35 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:50 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-26 14:43 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-12-27 08:29 +1000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 04:05 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 09:46 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:10 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:35 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 09:58 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:41 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:04 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-27 13:04 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-27 23:24 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-12-28 14:46 +0100
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-12-29 03:48 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 11:36 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 08:42 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-26 19:21 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-26 21:10 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:43 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:41 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-24 11:37 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-12-26 08:38 -0800
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:06 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-12-21 02:55 +0000
Re: The Web (HTML) Sux Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-12-27 18:22 +0000
csiph-web