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Re: Is PostgreSQL good?

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Mladen Gogala wrote:
>> PostgreSQL has some of these things.
>> Even if Oracle has some performance related features that PostgreSQL
>> does not, that does not prove that it will always perform better. I'm
>> sure that Oracle will sometimes be faster than PostgreSQL, but I don't
>> accept a general statement like that.

> Look no further than the Postgresql performance mailing list. At least
> once a month, there is a question why does Oracle do this or that faster
> than Postgres. If you asked users with the experience in both worlds,
> what do you think that the answer would be, which one is faster?

That argument is flawed.
Only people who have a problem will write a question to the list.

> This was supposed to be a discussion on the
> technical merits of hints, yet there is no answer to the main points I've
> made. Let me repeat them once again:
> - Humans are smarter than the optimizer and have better knowledge of
>  the data. Therefore, they should have the possibility to override the
>  decisions made by the optimizer.
> - Hints are needed, as the last resort, but they are. When there is no
>  other way of getting the desired performance, hints must be available
>  as the method of the last resort.
> - Database must offer a tuning methodology, things that user can do to
>  improve performance. You start with a SQL, you run explain analyze and
>  then there must be a series of steps to take. In PostgreSQL, there
>  isn't such a methodology.
> - Such refusal to provide a method to override the optimizer decisions
>  reflects deep mistrust of the database developers toward their users.

All but the third of these points are not about technical merits.

#1 is philosophy. I'd agree that humans are smarter than machines in
principle, but I wouldn't enter a number crunching contest with one.
Nor do I personally want to enter a query optimizing contest with
PostgreSQL's optimizer.

#2 is an opinion. What should I answer?

#4 sounds like a conspiracy theory.

I agree with #3 as far that a database must offer tools for tuning.
I have named some that PostgreSQL has. Query tuning is always a bit of
an art, don't pretend that there's a step-by-step foolproof method in
Oracle. I may look like that to you because you know it well.

>> That's ok, share your experiences.
>> But if you want your opinion to be heard, refrain from insult and
>> sweeping generalizations with no more proof than your authority.

> I don't think that I am getting my message across here. I don't care
> about being heard by the Postgres community, that's way behind me.

No, I meant be heard by people who post here to get advice and opinions
on migrating from Oracle to PostgreSQL.

Yours,
Laurenz Albe 

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migrating oracle to postgres Username <user@domain.tld> - 2011-06-20 19:28 +0200
  Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:08 +0000
    Re: migrating oracle to postgres Username <user@domain.tld> - 2011-06-20 23:45 +0200
      Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-20 22:37 +0000
      Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 02:01 +0000
  Re: migrating oracle to postgres "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-21 09:18 +0200
    Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 13:38 +0000
      Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-22 12:30 +0200
        Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Harry Tuttle <OTPXDAJCSJVU@spammotel.com> - 2011-06-22 13:15 +0200
        Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 12:02 +0000
          Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2011-06-22 21:52 +0200
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-22 22:43 +0000
          Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-24 12:29 +0200
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Hans Castorp <REWYRLXHEGHO@spammotel.com> - 2011-06-24 12:57 +0200
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-24 14:53 +0200
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-24 16:32 +0000
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 13:53 +0000
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-27 11:17 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-28 06:11 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-28 10:34 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-28 13:30 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-29 09:50 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-29 21:38 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-30 09:14 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <mgogala@no.address.invalid> - 2011-06-30 13:22 +0000
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-06-30 07:05 -0700
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-30 15:41 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-06-30 16:49 +0100
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-30 19:24 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-06-30 13:21 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-30 22:42 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-01 11:57 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 22:58 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-01 14:07 +0100
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 13:29 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-06-30 13:17 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 23:53 +0000
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-01 10:13 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 13:38 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-01 16:58 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-07-01 15:33 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-01 11:39 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-04 16:39 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-04 12:11 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-05 08:58 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-05 11:29 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-06 09:00 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-06 01:00 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-07 09:05 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-07 00:34 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Matthew Woodcraft <mattheww@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-04 20:12 +0100
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-04 12:24 -0700
      Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-23 17:48 +0200
        Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-23 16:42 +0000
          Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-23 18:57 +0000
          Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-26 17:35 +0200
            Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-26 19:08 +0000
          Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-27 00:32 -0700
            Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-28 16:00 +0000
              Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-28 22:28 +0200

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