Groups > comp.databases.postgresql > #172

Re: Is PostgreSQL good?

From	Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.databases.postgresql
Subject	Re: Is PostgreSQL good?
Date	2011-06-30 22:42 +0000
Organization	solani.org
Message-ID	<pan.2011.06.30.22.42.19@email.here.invalid> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <iuhvrv$5j7$1@speranza.aioe.org> <pan.2011.06.30.15.41.32@email.here.invalid> <87vcvnxqsj.fsf@araminta.anjou.terraraq.org.uk> <pan.2011.06.30.19.24.15@email.here.invalid> <iuilrp$tl6$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:21:17 -0700, Don Y wrote:

> Gee, someone expresses an interest in understanding why you have such a
> hard-on regarding "hints" and you dismiss it as "irrelevant".

What I consider  irrelevant is the analogy with the C language. 
Furthermore, this debate is, at least in my humble opinion, relevant to 
DBA's, project managers and people who will write SQL against a Postgres 
database. I haven't envisioned this debate as a talk show with the 
viewers taking sides, Oprah already covers that market.

As far as me having hard-on for hints, I needed them in one of my 
projects. Hints are a welcome option, offered by virtually all other RDBMS 
systems, yet there seems to be a problem with the designers of Postgres. 
I have yet to see a logical argument against providing that option and 
analogies with the C programming language don't seem to provide it, 
either. So, those analogies are irrelevant, at least in my point of view. 
You don't seem to be a database professional either, I am quite confused 
by the zeal with which you're trying to participate in this debate. Once 
again, this debate is about a specific feature of Postgres, or the lack 
of it.

FYI, hints are a method to force the optimizer to do what the programmer 
wants, rather than what the RDBMS thinks is right. Here are two 
implementations of query hints:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/index-hints.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms181714.aspx

There are, of course, other implementations, in DB2 and Oracle. As a 
matter of fact, the only other relatively well known database that didn't 
have hints was Firebird. Fortunately, its designers have seen the light 
and the hints are planned for the version 3.0:
http://www.slideshare.net/mindthebird/initial-review-of-firebird-3

The argument is whether the users should have power to override the 
optimizer decisions. I haven't seen a single coherent argument why they 
shouldn't have that option and I definitely did have a need for hints. 

-- 
http://mgogala.byethost5.com

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migrating oracle to postgres Username <user@domain.tld> - 2011-06-20 19:28 +0200
  Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-20 20:08 +0000
    Re: migrating oracle to postgres Username <user@domain.tld> - 2011-06-20 23:45 +0200
      Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-20 22:37 +0000
      Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 02:01 +0000
  Re: migrating oracle to postgres "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-21 09:18 +0200
    Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 13:38 +0000
      Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-22 12:30 +0200
        Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Harry Tuttle <OTPXDAJCSJVU@spammotel.com> - 2011-06-22 13:15 +0200
        Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 12:02 +0000
          Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2011-06-22 21:52 +0200
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-22 22:43 +0000
          Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-24 12:29 +0200
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Hans Castorp <REWYRLXHEGHO@spammotel.com> - 2011-06-24 12:57 +0200
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-24 14:53 +0200
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-24 16:32 +0000
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-24 13:53 +0000
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-27 11:17 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? (was: migrating oracle to postgres) Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-28 06:11 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-28 10:34 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-28 13:30 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-29 09:50 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-29 21:38 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-06-30 09:14 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <mgogala@no.address.invalid> - 2011-06-30 13:22 +0000
            Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-06-30 07:05 -0700
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-30 15:41 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-06-30 16:49 +0100
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-30 19:24 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-06-30 13:21 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-30 22:42 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-01 11:57 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 22:58 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-01 14:07 +0100
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 13:29 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-06-30 13:17 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 23:53 +0000
              Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-01 10:13 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 13:38 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-01 16:58 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-07-01 15:33 +0000
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-01 11:39 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-04 16:39 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-04 12:11 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-05 08:58 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-05 11:29 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-06 09:00 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-06 01:00 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? "Laurenz Albe" <invite@spam.to.invalid> - 2011-07-07 09:05 +0200
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-07 00:34 -0700
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Matthew Woodcraft <mattheww@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-04 20:12 +0100
                Re: Is PostgreSQL good? Don Y <nowhere@here.com> - 2011-07-04 12:24 -0700
      Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-23 17:48 +0200
        Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-23 16:42 +0000
          Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-23 18:57 +0000
          Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-26 17:35 +0200
            Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <gogala.mladen@gmail.com> - 2011-06-26 19:08 +0000
          Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-27 00:32 -0700
            Re: migrating oracle to postgres Mladen Gogala <no@email.here.invalid> - 2011-06-28 16:00 +0000
              Re: migrating oracle to postgres Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-28 22:28 +0200

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