Re: function declaration without args no longer works

From	cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: function declaration without args no longer works
Date	2026-04-28 13:13 +0000
Organization	PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID	<10sqbpn$i4b$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References	<10sl5na$5ov$1@reader1.panix.com> <10smvq5$25a7q$2@dont-email.me> <10spm2q$5fq$1@reader1.panix.com> <10sq8vv$3knhv$8@dont-email.me>

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In article <10sq8vv$3knhv$8@dont-email.me>,
Janis Papanagnou  <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On 2026-04-28 09:02, John Forkosh wrote:
>> 
>> No particular reason for "K&R2" versus "ANSI C". But overall reason
>> for "older C standard" was (but pretty much no longer is) contract
>> work on a variety of slightly-weird systems, particularly, for
>> example, VMS, which can require, e.g., a variety of very non-standard
>> stuff like
>>     #include <descrip.h>
>>     ...
>>     char    tabbuf[64];          /* usual declarations */
>>     char    *tabnam;
>>     struct  dsc$descriptor_s     /* required descriptor declarations */
>>          tab_desc = { 0, DSC$K_DTYPE_T, DSC$K_CLASS_S, &tabbuf[0] },
>>          log_desc = { 0, DSC$K_DTYPE_T, DSC$K_CLASS_S, lognam };
>> And I found it easier to stick to an older C standard whenever
>> possible, just to ensure compliance among as many OSs as possible,
>> across as many different platforms as possible.
>
>I don't quite understand; you say you needed such older standards
>to support various systems, and you use above code for that. Were
>(or are) these $-expressions standard back these days (or still)?
>
>(Looks like some VMS-specific stuff; I seem to recall there were
>$-expressions on that OS in various places. On file system? I've
>never programmed "C" on VMS as far as I recall.)

DEC liked to use `$` as a token in symbols in various langauges;
it's been an extension to standard C for many years.  It was
conventional to use `$` to separate e.g., a short library
identifer and a symbol name in that library.  `lib$put_output`
for example; this library routine takes a pointer to a
descriptor for data that is printed to, "the current controlling
output device."

Descriptors (like those above) are VMS-specific, tagged
structures used for bundling pointers up with metadata (types, a
"class", length).  Lots of variable-sized objects, like strings,
use them for for describing data passed to libraries, into the
operating system via "system service" calls (system calls), and
similar things.

All practical systems use some kind of "convention" for passing
parameters to functions written in a langauge.  The actual
mechanism varies; for example, arguments might be pushed onto
the (hardware) stack in some order, and accessed relative to a
stack or call frame pointer, while on others the first $n$ of
them might be put into general purpose registers, and the rest
spill onto the stack.  On some systems, these these conventions
vary from language-to-language (or even compiler-to-compiler).

VMS is an interesting example of a system that started life with
what we'd now call an ABI: there was a calling standard that
pretty much all languages conformed to, that specified how
functions (nee procedures, subroutines, and so on; whatever the
langauge wanted to call them) were invoked, the layout of data
in memory for elements of various types (e.g., 32 and 16 bit
words, pointers, floating point numbers, bytes, etc), and so on.
This made it trivial to call code written in different
languages; pretty much anyone using the DEC tools could invoke
code written in any language they provided a compiler for: C
could call FORTRAN, COBOL, Pascal, Macro-32, etc.  It was common
for systems to be written in a variety of languages.

VMS people used to mock the Unix people over this.  On Unix
systems, which grew ABIs rather later in the game, it was not
nearly so easy.

Descriptors were (and I suppose still are) a practical way to
abstract the semantics of different languages to make this
possible.  VMS strings, for example, are counted; the descriptor
contains the length; many system services are defined to take
some class of descriptors for a variety of data.

None of this is specific to C per se, but it does highlight the
way that extensions can be used to enhance functionality; in
this case, the use of `$` in an identifier.

Personally, I wish the standard would officially allow more
characters in identifiers, instead of making that an extension.

	- Dan C.

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function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-26 13:59 +0000
  Re: function declaration without args no longer works Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@gmx.net> - 2026-04-26 16:24 +0200
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-26 16:29 +0000
      Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-05-04 19:36 +0000
        Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-05-05 00:15 -0700
          Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-05-05 09:10 +0000
            Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-05-05 11:17 +0200
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-05-05 11:07 +0000
            Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-05-05 02:24 -0700
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-05-05 11:20 +0000
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-05 18:09 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-05-07 12:52 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-07 14:51 +0000
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-05-06 11:41 +0200
            Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-05-05 10:03 -0700
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-05-07 12:35 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-05-08 07:36 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-05-08 18:39 +0000
  Re: function declaration without args no longer works richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-04-26 14:32 +0000
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-26 16:35 +0000
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-29 16:43 -0700
      Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-30 08:39 +0200
  Re: function declaration without args no longer works Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-26 17:50 +0300
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-26 16:39 +0000
      Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-27 00:30 +0000
        Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-27 08:30 +0200
          Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-28 07:02 +0000
            Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-28 10:16 +0200
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-28 15:33 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-28 20:24 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-04-28 20:22 +0000
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-29 06:22 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-29 09:15 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-29 10:06 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-29 11:25 +0300
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-29 11:26 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-04-29 20:07 -0400
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 00:14 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 17:57 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-30 03:09 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-30 00:48 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 20:18 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 04:12 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 23:29 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-05-01 19:31 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-05-01 13:49 -0400
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 12:49 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-01 22:31 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-02 00:13 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 19:27 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 19:28 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-05-02 03:07 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-02 16:16 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 01:39 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-30 00:38 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 03:07 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-30 05:54 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 14:32 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-04-30 09:45 -0400
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-30 12:48 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-04-29 11:05 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-29 16:32 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-30 01:22 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-29 10:42 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:31 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-30 08:42 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-30 13:17 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 14:40 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 22:14 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-29 18:55 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-29 21:19 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2026-04-29 16:46 -0700
            Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:25 +0200
              Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-28 13:13 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-28 15:48 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-04-28 15:05 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-28 16:37 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:02 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-29 09:29 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 02:49 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-04-29 20:06 -0400
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 17:13 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 00:45 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-04-29 21:11 -0400
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 01:40 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 20:09 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-30 14:57 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-30 15:07 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-04-30 16:20 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-30 16:10 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-04-30 17:48 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-30 22:31 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-30 22:18 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-05-01 00:25 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-01 00:08 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-05-01 01:24 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 17:46 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-01 01:55 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2026-05-01 10:48 +0100
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-05-01 11:20 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 20:23 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-05-01 10:32 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 14:43 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-30 22:34 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2026-05-01 13:32 -0400
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-05-01 18:12 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-30 03:50 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-30 08:52 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:56 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 15:41 -0700
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-29 21:20 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-28 17:14 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-28 17:31 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-28 19:06 +0000
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-28 21:44 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-04-28 17:06 +0200
                Re: function declaration without args no longer works cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-28 19:23 +0000
  Re: function declaration without args no longer works David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-04-26 17:35 +0200
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-26 16:50 +0000
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:52 -0700
  Re: function declaration without args no longer works Andrey Tarasevich <noone@noone.net> - 2026-04-26 08:38 -0700
    Re: function declaration without args no longer works John Forkosh <forkosh@panix.com> - 2026-04-26 16:56 +0000

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