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Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation.

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation.
Date 2024-09-26 08:34 +0200
Message-ID <llkdj3FlhobU7@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <vd0hrt$3kaim$2@dont-email.me> <17f8779fe4e33237$5768$853305$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com> <vd0qqh$3l9p2$1@dont-email.me> <17f8791c30c406aa$5769$853305$c2065a8b@news.newsdemon.com> <vd0t0s$3luo6$1@dont-email.me>

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Am Mittwoch000025, 25.09.2024 um 13:43 schrieb Python:
> Le 25/09/2024 à 13:26, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
>> W dniu 25.09.2024 o 13:05, Python pisze:
>>> Le 25/09/2024 à 12:59, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
>>>> W dniu 25.09.2024 o 10:33, Python pisze:
>>>>> Le 25/09/2024 à 07:03, Thomas Heger a écrit :
>>>>>> Am Sonntag000022, 22.09.2024 um 16:41 schrieb Sylvia Else:
>>>>>>> On 17-Sept-24 11:16 am, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:
>>>>>>>> In reality, the LT is the difference in time taken for the 
>>>>>>>> transverse
>>>>>>>> and longitudinal beams.
>>>>>>>> Like with a river current, the longitudinal motion will be 
>>>>>>>> delayed more
>>>>>>>> than the transverse.
>>>>>>>> This is the difference that should have been detected by the
>>>>>>>> Michelson-Morley experiment.
>>>>>>>> As with water that is not flowing, we don't need these equations 
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>> an ether.
>>>>>>>> Since relativity does not involve an ether, applying the Lorentz
>>>>>>>> Transformation in this context is nonsensical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you look for equations that describe a universe in which all 
>>>>>>> observers measure the same speed for light, then you arrive at 
>>>>>>> the Lorentz transformation. This is why Einstein and Lorentz 
>>>>>>> ended up in the same place - they both started with the same 
>>>>>>> premise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I can tell, the question was not the speed of light, but 
>>>>>> 'form invariance' between coordinate systems in motion, which 
>>>>>> motivated Voigt and Poincare to develop an early form of SRT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was taken by Hendrik Lorentz, who developed on that 
>>>>>> foundation something, which Poincare named 'Lorentz transform'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I have read, that Poincare didn't like that and also not 
>>>>>> Einstein's SRT.
>>>>>
>>>>> You read what? Where?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, Poincare could be fooled enough to
>>>> support SR - too bad for him. But he
>>>> wrote very clearly what he thinks of
>>>> rejecting Euclidean geometry (which
>>>> [Einstein] did later in [snip prof.]
>>>
>>> No he didn't.
>>
>> Yes, he did.
>> https://www.gutenberg.org/files/37157/37157-pdf.pdf
>> He wrote clearly enough for anyone able to read.
>> Even if not clearly enough for you
> I meant Einstein didn't reject Euclidean Geometry.
> 
> I thought it was clear enough for anyone able to read.
> 


Sure, Einstein didn't.

SRT is actually based on Euclidean geometry and Newtonian mechanics.

This is so, because Einstein actually wrote that.

BUT: Euclidean geometry was wrong in this context of (SRT) relativity, 
because Euclidiean space is based on the idea of coordinates without a 
dependency on time.

Iow: if you have some remote event on -say- the x-axis of Euclidian 
space, this is simultaneaous, if a connecting signal would need no time 
to reach that point.

Euclidean space is therefore 'timeless'.

But the space of SRT is NOT independent of time.

To show this was the very purpose of SRT!

To refer to Euclidean space was therefor wrong in SRT.


TH

>

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Thread

The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 03:16 +0000
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-17 09:15 +0300
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 16:08 +0000
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-18 12:08 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 16:24 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 13:14 -0700
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 13:33 -0700
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 13:47 -0700
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 21:06 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@not-formail.invalid> - 2024-09-18 21:44 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 21:16 -0700
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@not-formail.invalid> - 2024-09-19 16:44 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-19 12:29 -0700
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-19 11:58 +0300
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 11:20 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 02:57 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2024-09-20 08:00 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-21 12:09 +0300
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-21 12:02 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-21 04:34 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 21:45 -0700
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-21 12:14 +0300
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-21 12:07 +0200
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 17:36 +0000
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz) - 2024-09-21 01:07 +0000
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-21 12:24 +0300
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-21 12:08 +0200
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-17 12:22 -0400
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 17:49 +0000
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-18 12:08 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-18 12:15 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 18:49 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-19 12:52 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 20:49 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 20:05 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 20:20 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-20 08:47 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 21:02 +0000
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 21:38 +0000
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-22 20:51 +0200
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-19 11:58 +0000
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 14:10 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-19 13:01 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 15:41 +0200
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-19 14:00 +0000
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 16:34 +0200
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-20 11:25 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-20 13:48 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2024-09-20 16:52 +0000
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2024-09-22 22:41 +0800
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-22 16:53 +0200
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-23 09:58 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-23 11:25 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-23 12:05 +0200
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-23 12:47 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-23 13:48 +0200
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-23 14:29 +0200
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-25 07:03 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2024-09-25 14:23 +0800
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 09:39 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 10:33 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 12:29 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 12:59 +0200
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 13:05 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 13:26 +0200
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 13:43 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 13:55 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 14:03 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 14:23 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 14:25 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 14:50 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-26 08:34 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-26 08:17 +0200

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