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Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation.

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation.
Date	2024-09-25 14:23 +0800
Message-ID	<llhoimF9geeU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<152fdece6d8ad07399662b8718f94e75@www.novabbs.com> <llaokuF7ikkU1@mid.individual.net> <llhjsaF8lbmU4@mid.individual.net>

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On 25-Sept-24 1:03 pm, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am Sonntag000022, 22.09.2024 um 16:41 schrieb Sylvia Else:
>> On 17-Sept-24 11:16 am, LaurenceClarkCrossen wrote:
>>> In reality, the LT is the difference in time taken for the transverse
>>> and longitudinal beams.
>>> Like with a river current, the longitudinal motion will be delayed more
>>> than the transverse.
>>> This is the difference that should have been detected by the
>>> Michelson-Morley experiment.
>>> As with water that is not flowing, we don't need these equations without
>>> an ether.
>>> Since relativity does not involve an ether, applying the Lorentz
>>> Transformation in this context is nonsensical.
>>
>> If you look for equations that describe a universe in which all 
>> observers measure the same speed for light, then you arrive at the 
>> Lorentz transformation. This is why Einstein and Lorentz ended up in 
>> the same place - they both started with the same premise.
> 
> As far as I can tell, the question was not the speed of light, but 'form 
> invariance' between coordinate systems in motion, which motivated Voigt 
> and Poincare to develop an early form of SRT.
> 
> This was taken by Hendrik Lorentz, who developed on that foundation 
> something, which Poincare named 'Lorentz transform'.
> 
> And I have read, that Poincare didn't like that and also not Einstein's 
> SRT.
> 
> TH

One can formulate the problem in different ways, and that can lead to 
different approaches to finding a solution.

But the underlying issue was the same - the measured speed of light is 
independent of the motion of the person doing the measuring. Any 
analysis that correctly describes that will lead to the Lorentz 
transformation, regardless of philosophical notions about what's 
happening behind the scenes.

Sylvia.

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The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 03:16 +0000
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-17 09:15 +0300
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 16:08 +0000
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-18 12:08 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 16:24 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 13:14 -0700
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 13:33 -0700
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 13:47 -0700
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 21:06 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@not-formail.invalid> - 2024-09-18 21:44 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-18 21:16 -0700
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@not-formail.invalid> - 2024-09-19 16:44 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-19 12:29 -0700
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-19 11:58 +0300
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 11:20 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 02:57 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2024-09-20 08:00 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-21 12:09 +0300
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-21 12:02 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-21 04:34 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-20 21:45 -0700
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-21 12:14 +0300
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-21 12:07 +0200
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 17:36 +0000
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz) - 2024-09-21 01:07 +0000
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-09-21 12:24 +0300
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-21 12:08 +0200
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-17 12:22 -0400
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-17 17:49 +0000
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-18 12:08 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-18 12:15 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 18:49 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-19 12:52 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 20:49 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 20:05 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-18 20:20 +0000
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-20 08:47 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 21:02 +0000
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen) - 2024-09-20 21:38 +0000
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-22 20:51 +0200
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-19 11:58 +0000
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 14:10 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-19 13:01 +0000
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 15:41 +0200
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-19 14:00 +0000
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-19 16:34 +0200
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. hitlong@yahoo.com (gharnagel) - 2024-09-20 11:25 +0000
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-20 13:48 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Richard Hachel <r.hachel@liscati.fr.invalid> - 2024-09-20 16:52 +0000
  Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2024-09-22 22:41 +0800
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-22 16:53 +0200
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-09-23 09:58 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-23 11:25 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-23 12:05 +0200
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-23 12:47 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-23 13:48 +0200
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-23 14:29 +0200
    Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-25 07:03 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2024-09-25 14:23 +0800
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 09:39 +0200
      Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 10:33 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-25 12:29 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 12:59 +0200
          Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 13:05 +0200
            Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 13:26 +0200
              Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 13:43 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 13:55 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 14:03 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 14:23 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-09-25 14:25 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-09-25 14:50 +0200
                Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-26 08:34 +0200
        Re: The truth about the Lorentz Transformation. Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-09-26 08:17 +0200

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