Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #626814

Re: Ehrenfest paradox

From	Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Ehrenfest paradox
Date	2024-01-03 19:48 +0100
Message-ID	<kvloftFs5e3U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<kuq7ihFpeblU1@mid.individual.net> <1qm8va9.1qil74z1wc3rlbN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <1qmhuqq.poycnw1laxzj0N%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <sx3kBZ-PBN4Pvk4djxf1z33zeJs@jntp>

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On 2024-01-03 18:09:26 +0000, Richard Hachel said:

> Le 03/01/2024 Ã  14:28, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) a Ã©crit :
>> Yes, we understand how to handle it, nowadays.
>> Back then Einstein and Ehrenfest mostly saw the can of worms, I guess.
>> Einstein draw the conclusion that nothing good
>> would come out of all this, for a more general theory,
>> and he went to non-Euclidean geometry throughout.
> 
> Turning to Euclidean geometry does not offer anything good.
> The truth is that no one has ever managed to explain the Ehrenfest 
> paradox (except me).
> 
> I repeat, and I will always repeat, the problem is not scientific but human.
> 
> Everyone wants to be their little Albert Einstein,

"Dr." Richard Hachel seems to be an example. A _very_ little Albert Einstein.

>  and be worshiped like a demi-God.
> 
> I find this behavior stupid.
> 
> Look at how Henri PoincarÃ© behaves, the greatest mathematician of all 
> time, who, very humble,
> corrects the Hendrik Lorentz transformations, and gives them the name 
> Lorentz transformations. Look at this man who posed E=mcÂ² in 1902, and 
> who said in 1905: "Mr. Einstein says interesting things" even though 
> Einstein never, anywhere quotes PoincarÃ©.
> 
> Eisntein will one day confess (too late, some would say) his lie, and 
> say: "I had read all of PoincarÃ©, and I was captivated by this man's 
> writings."
> 
> Today, after having studied the theory of relativity for forty years, I 
> believe I am authorized to talk a little about it, because I master 
> everything, from Galilean frames of reference to accelerated frames of 
> reference, from the Langevin paradox to the Ehrenfest paradox, from 
> rotating disk to the relativity of lengths, distances, electromagnetic 
> frequencies, moments and durations.
> 
> And what I have to say is this. Eisntein was wrong when he said that 
> special relativity was difficult, but that there was no trap. The 
> opposite is true. It's very easy, and it doesn't require anything other 
> than squares, square roots, sines and cosines. Once I had to use a 
> tengente, and once I had to use an integral, and again, it's not 
> absolutely necessary to write the entire song.
> 
> There is absolutely no need to resort to abstract and, above all, false 
> non-Euclidean geometries.
> 
> If you ask a child to stand in front of a disk and ask him what he 
> sees, he will say: "I see a disk."
> 
> If you spin it at a low angular velocity, it will continue to say: "I 
> see a spinning disk."
> 
> If you spin it at a relativistic speed, it will always say that it sees 
> a disk, and it will point out that the disk is behaving strangely. But 
> it will still be a record. The child will never say that he sees "a 
> non-Euclidean thing in the shape of an inverted horse's saddle, or 
> other madness invented by relativistic physicists incapable of 
> correctly resolving the paradox and giving the transformations relating 
> to the rotating frames of reference like PoincarÃ© 'had done for the 
> Galilean frames of reference.
> 
> I have the correct transformations for relativistic rotating frames, 
> and it's ultimately very simple. No paradox, no difficulty, nothing 
> more than angular velocities, circumferences, square roots, a sine, and 
> a cosine.
> 
> And what the child will see, he will describe with great simplicity and 
> confidence.
> 
> R.H.


-- 
Athel cb

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Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-24 09:17 +0100
  Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-12-24 13:18 +0100
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-25 16:26 +0000
      Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-27 02:21 +0000
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-27 06:39 +0100
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-28 09:04 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 08:31 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-03 08:51 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-03 10:56 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 09:53 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-04 08:23 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 10:05 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-05 07:26 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-05 12:33 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-06 08:47 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-08 20:07 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-09 07:20 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-09 12:28 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-10 09:53 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-10 14:05 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-14 07:23 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-14 16:26 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Gus Bähr Schultheiß <igsu@ybonrurg.dd> - 2024-01-14 19:49 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-14 18:50 -0500
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-15 00:14 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-01-15 01:17 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-15 00:51 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-15 08:12 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-15 13:37 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-09 15:07 +0100
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-12-28 13:18 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 04:46 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 14:19 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-28 16:10 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 16:16 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:03 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 19:34 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 21:05 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 10:14 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 11:04 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 11:08 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 19:32 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-31 08:08 +0100
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-31 09:38 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-04 12:00 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 11:24 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2024-01-04 12:18 -0600
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 22:18 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-04 23:07 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 21:56 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-05 06:36 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 23:45 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-05 12:18 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-05 13:54 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 05:20 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-09 20:15 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-10 05:12 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 23:31 -0800
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 01:15 -0800
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:00 -0800
      Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-03 14:28 +0100
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 09:54 -0800
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-03 18:09 +0000
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-03 19:48 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Adolf Göbel <adolfgoebel@aol.com> - 2024-01-03 22:21 +0100
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 11:25 -0800
  Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-28 22:31 +0100
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 07:42 +0000
      Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-29 12:51 +0100
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 12:58 +0000
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 07:55 -0800
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 13:25 +0000
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 14:36 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 13:43 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 14:45 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 06:48 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2023-12-29 16:24 +0100
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 15:29 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 20:33 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 12:11 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 21:22 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 01:34 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 10:02 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2023-12-30 11:06 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 02:33 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 11:07 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 16:53 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-29 23:59 +0100
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 01:37 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 17:59 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-03 23:30 -0500
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 07:44 +0000

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