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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #626674
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Ehrenfest paradox |
| Date | 2023-12-31 08:08 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <kvci3hF7bnbU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <1qm8va9.1qil74z1wc3rlbN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <ZsjXr9bgTTCYAO4oJQtdLu_p5EQ@jntp> <kT_ns34ezkf-xf-FRXFdauTG6sE@jntp> <kv1rdhF6ggvU1@mid.individual.net> <1qmg9fs.1s5rpu11ao7hzxN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> |
Am 28.12.2023 um 13:18 schrieb J. J. Lodder: ... >> Sure. >> >> But you certainly don't want to be an observer on a rotating disk, which >> has tangential velocity in the relativistic realm. >> >> That would be like sitting on a carussel, which runs insanely fast. >> >> You will be shot from that disk like a cannon ball. >> >> Therefore only very slow rotation is somehow feasable (for human >> observers), which is far far far from relativity velocity. >> >> >>> If we decompose the movement, we then understand that the part ?y does >>> not contract or only slightly, and that the part ?x contracts greatly at >>> relativistic speed. >> >> If you want to enter the realm of special relativity, you need extremely >> high angular velocity or extremely large disks (or both). >> >> This will bring the 'rigid' disk into its critical realm, where tensions >> are far greater than the strength of the material could possibly be. >> >> But at least: the radius will not shrink nor will the circumference. >> >> (more likely: that disk will break) >> >> >>> The observable residual velocity vector is therefore deviated inwards. >>> >>> This can explain why the disk ALSO contracts at the level of the >>> radius, and why there is no paradox, since pi remains invariant in this >>> case. >> >> I have absolutely no idea, what Einstein and Ehrenfest actually wanted >> to say. > > Einstein and Ehrenfest just took the 'paradox' as heuristics. It's total nonsense to declare a rotating FoR as equivalent to an inertial FoR. And it would be realy insane to assume, that an observer on a rotating disk rotating with tangential velocity in the realm of SRT (like say 0.5 c) would not notice this rotation. Therefore I have not the faintest idea, what Einstein's/Ehrenfest's point actually was. ... TH
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Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-24 09:17 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-12-24 13:18 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-25 16:26 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-27 02:21 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-27 06:39 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-28 09:04 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 08:31 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-03 08:51 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-03 10:56 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 09:53 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-04 08:23 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 10:05 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-05 07:26 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-05 12:33 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-06 08:47 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-08 20:07 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-09 07:20 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-09 12:28 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-10 09:53 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-10 14:05 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-09 15:07 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-12-28 13:18 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 04:46 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 14:19 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-28 16:10 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 16:16 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:03 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 19:34 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 21:05 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 10:14 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 11:04 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 11:08 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 19:32 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-31 08:08 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-31 09:38 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-04 12:00 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 11:24 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2024-01-04 12:18 -0600
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 22:18 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-04 23:07 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 21:56 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-05 06:36 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 23:45 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-05 12:18 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-05 13:54 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 05:20 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-09 20:15 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-10 05:12 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 23:31 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 01:15 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:00 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-03 14:28 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 09:54 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-03 18:09 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-03 19:48 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Adolf Göbel <adolfgoebel@aol.com> - 2024-01-03 22:21 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 11:25 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-28 22:31 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 07:42 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-29 12:51 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 12:58 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 07:55 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 13:25 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 14:36 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 13:43 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 14:45 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 06:48 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2023-12-29 16:24 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 15:29 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 20:33 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 12:11 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 21:22 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 01:34 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 10:02 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2023-12-30 11:06 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 02:33 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 11:07 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 16:53 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-29 23:59 +0100
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 01:37 -0800
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 17:59 +0000
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-03 23:30 -0500
Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 07:44 +0000
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