Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #626674

Re: Ehrenfest paradox

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Ehrenfest paradox
Date 2023-12-31 08:08 +0100
Message-ID <kvci3hF7bnbU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <1qm8va9.1qil74z1wc3rlbN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <ZsjXr9bgTTCYAO4oJQtdLu_p5EQ@jntp> <kT_ns34ezkf-xf-FRXFdauTG6sE@jntp> <kv1rdhF6ggvU1@mid.individual.net> <1qmg9fs.1s5rpu11ao7hzxN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>

Show all headers | View raw


Am 28.12.2023 um 13:18 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
...
>> Sure.
>>
>> But you certainly don't want to be an observer on a rotating disk, which
>> has tangential velocity in the relativistic realm.
>>
>> That would be like sitting on a carussel, which runs insanely fast.
>>
>> You will be shot from that disk like a cannon ball.
>>
>> Therefore only very slow rotation is somehow feasable (for human
>> observers), which is far far far from relativity velocity.
>>
>>
>>>    If we decompose the movement, we then understand that the part ?y does
>>> not contract or only slightly, and that the part ?x contracts greatly at
>>> relativistic speed.
>>
>> If you want to enter the realm of special relativity, you need extremely
>> high angular velocity or extremely large disks (or both).
>>
>> This will bring the 'rigid' disk into its critical realm, where tensions
>> are far greater than the strength of the material could possibly be.
>>
>> But at least: the radius will not shrink nor will the circumference.
>>
>> (more likely: that disk will break)
>>
>>
>>>    The observable residual velocity vector is therefore deviated inwards.
>>>
>>>    This can explain why the disk ALSO contracts at the level of the
>>> radius, and why there is no paradox, since pi remains invariant in this
>>> case.
>>
>> I have absolutely no idea, what Einstein and Ehrenfest actually wanted
>> to say.
>
> Einstein and Ehrenfest just took the 'paradox' as heuristics.

It's total nonsense to declare a rotating FoR as equivalent to an 
inertial FoR.

And it would be realy insane to assume, that an observer on a rotating 
disk rotating with tangential velocity in the realm of SRT (like say 0.5 
c) would not notice this rotation.

Therefore I have not the faintest idea, what Einstein's/Ehrenfest's 
point actually was.

...

TH

Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar


Thread

Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-24 09:17 +0100
  Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-12-24 13:18 +0100
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-25 16:26 +0000
      Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-27 02:21 +0000
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-27 06:39 +0100
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-28 09:04 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 08:31 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-03 08:51 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-03 10:56 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 09:53 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-04 08:23 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 10:05 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-05 07:26 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-05 12:33 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-06 08:47 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-08 20:07 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-09 07:20 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-09 12:28 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-01-10 09:53 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-10 14:05 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-09 15:07 +0100
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2023-12-28 13:18 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 04:46 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 14:19 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-28 16:10 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-28 16:16 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:03 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 19:34 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 21:05 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 10:14 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 11:04 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 11:08 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 19:32 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-12-31 08:08 +0100
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-31 09:38 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-04 12:00 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 11:24 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2024-01-04 12:18 -0600
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-04 22:18 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-04 23:07 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 21:56 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-05 06:36 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-04 23:45 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-05 12:18 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-05 13:54 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-05 05:20 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Laurence Clark Crossen <l.c.crossen@hotmail.com> - 2024-01-09 20:15 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-01-10 05:12 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-09 23:31 -0800
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 01:15 -0800
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2023-12-28 15:00 -0800
      Re: Ehrenfest paradox nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2024-01-03 14:28 +0100
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 09:54 -0800
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2024-01-03 18:09 +0000
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2024-01-03 19:48 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Adolf Göbel <adolfgoebel@aol.com> - 2024-01-03 22:21 +0100
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2024-01-03 11:25 -0800
  Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-28 22:31 +0100
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 07:42 +0000
      Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-29 12:51 +0100
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 12:58 +0000
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 07:55 -0800
        Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 13:25 +0000
          Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 14:36 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 13:43 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 14:45 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 06:48 -0800
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2023-12-29 16:24 +0100
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 15:29 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 20:33 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-29 12:11 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 21:22 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 01:34 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 10:02 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2023-12-30 11:06 +0100
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 02:33 -0800
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 11:07 +0000
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-12-29 16:53 +0100
            Re: Ehrenfest paradox wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> - 2023-12-29 23:59 +0100
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-12-30 01:37 -0800
              Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-30 17:59 +0000
                Re: Ehrenfest paradox Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-01-03 23:30 -0500
    Re: Ehrenfest paradox Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-12-29 07:44 +0000

csiph-web