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Re: Updated crackpot index?

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics, sci.math, sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Updated crackpot index?
Date 2022-12-24 09:57 +0100
Message-ID <k0nt6sFsuc3U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <tmtets$u6qm$1@dont-email.me> <tnnr2u$1j96$1@dont-email.me> <k0iiqaF4456U1@mid.individual.net> <to3jm6$1lbk6$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Am 23.12.2022 um 08:00 schrieb Volney:
> On 12/22/2022 3:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 18.12.2022 um 20:53 schrieb Volney:
>>> On 12/8/2022 2:46 PM, Volney wrote:
>>>
>>> Several proposed additions to John Baez's Crackpot Index.
>>> (I have not yet decided whether to add to his excellent list or rewrite
>>> it. For now treat these as additions)
>>
>>
>>> 38. X points for stating people who agree with a theory promoted by an
>>> expert are "worshiping" him.
>>> Or stating "Physics is a religion/cult!"
>>
>>
>> Your method is wrong to begin with, because you should not plug in,
>> what you try to find out.
>>
>> Here your 'error' is, that you consider certain topics as 'crackpottery'.
>
> No, it is the person being scored that considers a certain segment of
> science as being a religion or cult. This is obviously a conflict
> because science is based on the scientific method while religions/cults
> have some sort of faith, that is, something you simply must believe with
> no observation or evidence of it. That's directly opposed to the
> scientific method.

Well, the Catholic Church maintains actually universities and produced 
own scientific studies.

In former times the Pope wanted to decide, whether certain theories were 
true or not and quite few lost their lives, who disagreed.

Sure, to kill 'heritics' is directly opposed to the scientific method, 
but was once actual reality.


>> But before you could possibly do that, a discussion of the validity of
>> your claim is required.
>
> The claim is that of the potential crackpot (the science of XXX is a
> cult) (followers of Newtonian physics worship Newton), not mine.

The 'crackpots' don't say, that science would be a cult.

The claim is more or less, that cults took over science and turned it 
away from the scientific method.

Then, in the next step, the heritics were expelled and replaced by own 
people.

This is assisted by a takeover of the media, which would not publish 
heretics anymore.

Sure, this system is certainly not scientific. But that was not the 
claim, but whether or not this would be real.


>> For instance: here you need to discuss the question first, whether
>> physicst build a sect or cult prior to claiming, that mentioning this
>> is 'crackpottery'.
>
> No physicist is claiming crackpottery. The purported crackpot is
> claiming science is a cult to "earn" points for this.



Most people are not destructive intentionally, hence actually seek real 
truth.

But obviously most scientists fail in their endeavour to find the lasts 
truth in the universe.

So, most scientists are in an objective way wrong in what they believe.

This wrongness is not really 'crackpottery', but in most cases a 
necessary step in a long lasting project in search of true knowledge.

> The whole point of the crackpot index is to assign a score to a post or
> series of posts based on statements and claims therein that crackpots
> make but most others would not.  "Microbiology is a cult!" for example,
> when microbiology meets the definition of science/following the
> scientific method.
>
Before you can use a statement in a 'crackpost list', you need to 
proove, that the statement is actually wrong.

For instance: 'flat Earth' is most likely wrong, hence a good candidate 
for such a list. But first you need to proove 'flat Earth' wrong.

If you cannot prove a statement wrong, it could eventually be true.

In such a case, this claim must not be used in a 'crackpot list'.

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Thread

Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-08 14:46 -0500
  Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 12:08 -0800
  Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-08 14:14 -0600
  Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 12:16 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-08 21:26 +0100
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 14:11 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 14:43 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-09 02:56 -0500
        Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 09:07 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 12:19 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Hanoi Cuocco <ouco@ocaoch.ho> - 2022-12-09 21:02 +0000
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 20:28 +0000
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 21:19 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-10 16:18 -0600
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Trolidan7 <Trolidan7@eternal-september.org> - 2022-12-10 14:42 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-10 17:59 -0600
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 22:57 +0000
            Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-10 16:16 -0600
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Smokey Abbiati <asbk@atmakb.ai> - 2022-12-11 18:21 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2022-12-11 10:40 -0800
              Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-11 13:44 -0600
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Smokey Abbiati <asbk@atmakb.ai> - 2022-12-11 21:37 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-11 16:07 -0600
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-12 00:13 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Darron Riva <orvd@raria.ar> - 2022-12-12 16:28 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-12 13:41 -0600
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 23:33 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Stephan Russo <ptrp@susnon.sr> - 2022-12-08 20:58 +0000
    Note to Volney (was Re: Updated crackpot index?) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-08 18:15 -0600
      Re: Note to Volney (was Re: Updated crackpot index?) Hanoi Cuocco <ouco@ocaoch.ho> - 2022-12-09 14:35 +0000
        Re: Note to Volney (was Re: Updated crackpot index?) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-09 10:59 -0600
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Stephan Russo <ptrp@susnon.sr> - 2022-12-08 21:00 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-09 13:36 -0800
    Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 13:39 -0800
      Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-09 17:47 -0800
        Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 17:52 -0800
        Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 19:17 -0800
          Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 19:26 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-10 18:24 -0500
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 17:07 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-10 18:41 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-11 22:33 -0500
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 04:15 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Darron Riva <orvd@raria.ar> - 2022-12-12 18:43 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-12-10 13:09 +0100
    Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-10 09:34 -0800
      Crank Pat Dolan comes to grips with the facts "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 09:46 -0800
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 23:22 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 14:53 -0500
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-18 12:37 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Vitaliy Bazzoli <zvt@viavzl.oi> - 2022-12-18 20:41 +0000
    Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-18 13:10 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 00:35 -0500
        Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-19 21:43 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 16:05 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-24 13:37 -0800
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-12-24 14:13 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-22 09:29 +0100
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-23 02:00 -0500
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 23:21 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 01:32 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-23 23:15 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-24 09:57 +0100
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 15:32 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-24 13:33 -0800
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-29 09:34 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-29 00:48 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 12:03 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 03:58 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-01 10:10 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 03:47 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-02 08:35 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 01:00 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-03 07:59 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-06 08:18 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-05 23:36 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-09 08:57 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-09 00:08 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Luigi Tumicelli <llei@cumiicli.lu> - 2023-01-09 09:04 +0000
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-25 11:17 +0100
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-25 14:40 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-26 10:23 +0100
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-26 14:10 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-26 12:37 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-27 09:36 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thurman De palma <eaan@phapremr.an> - 2022-12-27 13:57 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-27 23:00 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-28 08:38 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-29 15:25 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Emmet Robustelli <uttl@etlmms.re> - 2022-12-29 21:28 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 12:41 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-02 11:45 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 08:49 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 09:08 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 09:15 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-03 02:14 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 23:52 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-03 08:27 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Ufonaut <ufonaut9@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 06:12 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Ufonaut <ufonaut9@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 06:23 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 08:27 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-29 09:19 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Ufonaut <ufonaut9@gmail.com> - 2022-12-29 04:51 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 12:52 +0100
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Hannu Poropudas <haporopuda@gmail.com> - 2022-12-20 23:32 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-21 09:24 +0100
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 10:10 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 10:25 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 10:40 -0800
            Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-21 12:51 -0600
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Celso Ardizzone <eodo@ceiozi.ci> - 2022-12-21 19:12 +0000
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 15:07 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 20:18 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2022-12-21 12:41 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 21:14 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 16:15 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 21:17 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-21 16:14 -0600
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 13:10 -0800
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-19 09:38 +0100
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-21 20:43 +0100
          Re: Updated crackpot index? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-12-21 21:52 +0100
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-22 09:17 +0100

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