Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #586798

Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error
Date	2022-06-12 07:26 +0200
Message-ID	<jglbngFppqdU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <_bmdnXI-c7KTIT3_nZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <jgg33dFsidtU1@mid.individual.net> <e38eceea-33ff-467c-acfd-2a555eff781fn@googlegroups.com> <jgil30Fbod1U1@mid.individual.net> <561b1901-5002-4537-b258-ef554866d2d0n@googlegroups.com>

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Am 11.06.2022 um 08:34 schrieb Tom Capizzi:
> On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 12:47:33 AM UTC-4, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 10.06.2022 um 07:38 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>> On Friday, 10 June 2022 at 07:28:18 UTC+2, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>
>>>> Appartently the universe 'speaks' in a mathematical language, which is
>>>> also known as 'geometric algebra'.
>>>
>>> The universe is silent, like it always was. If you're
>>> applying some mathematical language to it - that's
>>> because you're trained to try.
>>>
>>>
>> No, the universe is not silent.
>>
>> We see things all around us, which are somehow produced by the universe.
>>
>> Now we could think, the universe itself would operate on a mathematical
>> foundation and acts like a large analoge computer.
>>
>> This was more or less my own assumption, which I have used in my 'book'
>> about 'structured spacetime':
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>>
>> This concept works quite well and was based on the assumption, that the
>> universe itself uses a certain kind of math, by which pointlike elements
>> of spacetime are interconnected.
>>
>> This would create certain patterns, which we call 'matter' in case of
>> they are timelike stable.
>>
>>
>> It is actually a relatively simple concept, streight forward and based
>> on a small set of plausible assumptions.
>>
>> The only problem is, that these assumptions are not very intuitive and
>> difficult to understand.
>>
>>
>>
>> TH
>
> In my own musings, I have considered a similar system. I noticed that through several isomorphisms of spacetime coordinates (I say isomorphisms because there is no combination of Lorentz transforms that can map one to another) the invariant s² and the rapidity w were the same in all of the isomorphisms. I realized it was because s is the hyperbolic magnitude and rapidity is the hyperbolic rotation angle. They are the coordinates of a point in a Cartesian orthogonal coordinate system. Since this grid is orthogonal, the two coordinates are independent, resulting in what we call invariance. In other words, after passing local coordinates through the transform that maps hyperbolic coordinates to another frame, the relationship that restores the hyperbolic magnitude associated with any point in hyperbolic spacetime is just the inverse of the coordinate transform that created the map. Despite the fact that the axes are no longer orthogonal, the inverse transform reconstructs the hyperb
olic magnitude. The property of invariance implies an isomorphism to hyperbolic trigonometry, in which hyperbolic magnitude and rotation angle are orthogonal. This seems to imply that the universe prefers hyperbolic coordinate systems. In the hyperbolic coordinate system, the Lorentz transform takes on an especially simple form. If the hyperbolic rotation angle is w, then w1 is initial angle, w2 is the angle associated with a Lorentz boost and w3 is the result. Then, (s,w3) = (0,w2) + (s,w1). In the Minkowski isomorphism, the first and last points are replaced by column vectors, and the boost is a 2x2 matrix. In the Euclidean isomorphism, the 2x2 matrix is diagonal, because the axes are the real eigenvectors of the Lorentz matrix. The elements of the diagonal matrix are the two real eigenvalues of the Lorentz matrix, while in the Minkowski isomorphism, the elements are hyperbolic functions of the rotation angle, the magnitude of which is the natural log of the eigenvalue. The interes
ting thing about the eigenvector isomorphism is that it cannot be reached by any combination of Lorentz boosts. A single Lorentz boost can take a point that is stationary and boost it to any finite velocity, less than c. For the eigenvector frame to be unreachable by any combination of Lorentz boosts implies that it, like the eigenvectors which are the worldlines of photons, is the frame of lightspeed. How many questions have gone unanswered because we can't transform to the light frame? But this frame maps to both the hyperbolic grid and Minkowski spacetime. As isomorphisms, any disturbance in any one of them produces ripples in all of them. Not necessarily similar, though.
>
> What caught my attention was the idea of a set of points being in a fixed geometric pattern. Magnitudes in hyperbolic coordinates are unaffected by relative velocity. So a set of points in a line represents a set of magnitudes that all share the same velocity, and are invariant as a set over all rapidities. These could be structures like atoms or molecules. Does any of this sync with what you're doing?

First:

you should add some white space into your text, what would make it much 
more readable.

Second:

yes actually, but I had a different approach.

I wanted to find use for a certain quaternion equation, because I wanted 
to take spacetime as real physical entity and model it as  quaternion 
field. These 'elements of spacetime' are assumed to interact with their 
direct neighbors in a certain way, which generates certain patterns. 
These patterns are, what we regard as the real world, while they are in 
fact internal structure of spacetime.


TH

Thread

Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-05-15 18:48 -0700
  Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2022-05-15 19:01 -0700
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-05-15 21:24 -0500
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-05-15 19:34 -0700
      Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 14:54 -0700
      Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error rotchm <rotchm@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 15:51 -0700
        Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-05-17 23:03 -0700
  Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 01:47 -0700
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-05-16 11:31 +0200
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 01:13 -0700
      Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-06-08 10:11 -0500
        Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 21:27 -0700
        Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 13:09 -0700
          Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> - 2022-06-09 18:35 -0400
            Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 18:38 -0700
          Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 17:49 -0700
            Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 18:50 -0700
              Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 19:50 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 21:25 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 22:10 -0700
          Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-06-10 13:51 -0500
            Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 15:55 -0700
              Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 16:30 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 16:37 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 20:31 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 17:43 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 20:46 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 21:47 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 22:31 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 22:56 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 23:46 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 00:36 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 06:47 -0700
                New crank? Old crank? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 07:23 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 06:55 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 07:32 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 15:42 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 16:56 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 22:38 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 23:43 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 23:52 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 10:54 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 11:50 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 12:10 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-13 09:26 +0200
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-13 01:36 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-13 13:43 +0200
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-13 06:16 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-13 18:56 +0200
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-13 10:27 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-14 09:28 +0200
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-14 00:31 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-14 18:16 +0200
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-14 09:23 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 17:27 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 18:28 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 19:06 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 23:03 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-13 18:13 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-13 18:35 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-14 17:33 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-14 19:17 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-14 22:48 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-15 13:00 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-15 17:05 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-16 03:28 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-16 06:49 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-16 08:43 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-17 07:37 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-17 12:55 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-17 22:46 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-18 07:44 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-18 08:46 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-06-19 09:31 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-19 12:36 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 08:37 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> - 2022-06-20 12:27 -0400
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-06-20 16:55 +0000
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 16:18 -0700
                Crank Tom Capizzi perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 09:35 -0700
                Re: Crank Tom Capizzi perseveres Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 16:19 -0700
                Re: Crank Tom Capizzi perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-06-21 06:48 -0700
                Re: Crank Tom Capizzi perseveres Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-21 13:00 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 11:39 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 16:24 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 17:22 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 18:57 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Stan Fultoni <fultonistan@gmail.com> - 2022-06-20 20:38 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-21 13:01 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-06-23 12:51 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-23 13:38 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-16 03:44 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 11:07 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 11:19 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 11:34 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-11 10:42 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 20:57 -0700
            Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 16:06 -0700
        Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-10 07:28 +0200
          Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 22:38 -0700
            Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-11 06:47 +0200
              Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 23:34 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-12 07:26 +0200
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-12 10:50 -0700
                Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-13 11:27 +0200
  Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Aldo <aldo.mayme.11084@cap.edu.mx> - 2022-05-16 15:08 -0700
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 01:27 -0700
  Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-05-19 10:36 +1000
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 22:50 -0700
      Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-05-19 19:41 +1000
        Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-19 07:01 -0700
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-05-19 11:26 +0200
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Ricardo Jimenez <rickyjim@earthlink.net> - 2022-05-20 10:49 -0400
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 01:39 -0700
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 01:42 -0700
      Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-06-10 09:33 +1000
        Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 17:27 -0700
          Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-06-10 11:56 +1000
  Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-05 10:37 +0200
    Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Tom Capizzi <tgcapizzi@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 01:53 -0700
      Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-09 09:20 +0200
  Re: Special Relativity Fatal Error JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-06-05 02:15 -0700

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