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Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz
Date	2022-03-25 11:21 +1100
Message-ID	<ja4g8mF93l8U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<8be36be4-97e0-4c3a-a31a-5aa7c91a261en@googlegroups.com>

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On 24-Mar-22 10:14 am, patdolan wrote:
> "What!" you howl, "There is no v' in the Transforms Lorentz!"  And you would be exactly correct.  There is only v.  All observes will always and only use v when calculating the coordinate values x' and t'.  This from Hyperphysics:
> 
> Transforms from S to S'
> x' = ( x - vt )/sqrt[ 1 - (v/c)^2 ]
> t' = ( t - vx/c^2 )/sqrt[ 1 - (v/c)^2 ]
> 
> and going back the other way
> 
> Transforms to S' to S
> x = ( x' + vt' )/sqrt[ 1 - (v/c)^2 ]
> t = ( t' + vx'/c^2 )/sqrt[ 1 - (v/c)^2 ]
> 
> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Relativ/ltrans.html#c2
> 
> Conspicuous by its absence from the Transforms Lorentz is the quantity v'.  A great reasoner and philosopher once wrote that if v = v in both cases then it should be provable.
> 
> I dare any denizen of this forum to prove that the v used in the Transforms to S' equals/is identical to, the v used in the Transforms to S.
> 
> I don't think even Townes Olson has a clue how to do this.  He may not even understand what I am typing about.  And Bodkin?  Fuhgedaboudit.
> 
> With deepest sympathy for a lost cause,
> 
> TMWBTLT
> 
> 
> 

The coordinate systems are chosen so that v = v'. Since coordinate 
system choice is arbitrary, you can choose a different coordinate system 
in which v != v' (1). This will make the math more complicated, while 
contributing nothing to the understanding. It will not change the 
results at all.

Sylvia.

(1) Translation won't do this, but rotation will.

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v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 16:14 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 23:48 +0000
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 17:04 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 10:44 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 09:55 -0500
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 16:21 +0000
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 15:12 -0500
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 21:44 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 22:51 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 19:39 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-26 20:27 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-27 12:37 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 10:38 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 17:52 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 14:47 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 19:53 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 15:18 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 20:57 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 18:50 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 14:29 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 22:15 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-27 14:33 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 18:53 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 13:57 +0000
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 18:46 -0700
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 23:08 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 23:29 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 23:48 -0700
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 00:22 -0700
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 00:39 -0700
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 06:34 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 06:45 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:27 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:27 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 09:40 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 16:54 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 10:04 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:31 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 12:36 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:46 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 20:07 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 13:26 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 21:44 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 22:01 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 16:04 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 17:18 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 17:26 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 17:54 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 17:59 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 18:16 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 09:12 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 09:51 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 09:55 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 17:03 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 10:09 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 17:19 +0000
                Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 10:39 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 10:46 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 17:52 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 10:59 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 12:01 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 12:00 -0700
                Village imbecile Pat Dolan inserts foot in mouth "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 10:38 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 12:03 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 12:46 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-24 18:28 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 18:46 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 10:01 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 10:30 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 17:37 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 11:01 -0700
                Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 11:24 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 11:56 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 12:04 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:34 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:43 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-24 22:16 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 13:26 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-25 11:16 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 14:58 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 00:52 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-25 21:58 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-27 23:56 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-28 13:09 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-29 11:48 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 19:25 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-30 11:07 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 12:02 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-30 12:46 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres thor stoneman <consequently7990662@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 13:23 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:31 +0000
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-24 15:41 -0400
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 12:44 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 12:49 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 23:54 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 11:27 +0000
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-26 00:45 +0100
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 17:01 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 10:48 +0000
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 10:38 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-26 16:25 +0100
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 08:37 -0700
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-26 16:41 +0100
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 10:51 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-26 19:04 +0100
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 10:46 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 13:13 +0000
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 17:03 +0000
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 17:12 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-26 19:17 +0100
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-26 12:12 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-24 13:43 +0100
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 13:53 +0000
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:01 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:01 +0000
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 09:34 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:20 +0100
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 11:51 -0700
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-24 18:11 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 18:16 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 18:25 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-24 18:46 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Takabe Matsumura <tamu@frdesn.jp> - 2022-03-24 19:44 +0000
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Takabe Matsumura <tamu@frdesn.jp> - 2022-03-24 20:00 +0000
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-03-25 11:21 +1100
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz carl eto <carleto4157990662@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 12:34 -0700

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