Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #580926

Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz

Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Date	2022-03-24 12:36 -0700
References	(7 earlier) <818825f4-156a-4367-aa61-06296592d689n@googlegroups.com> <e29a811b-a2a4-41e2-aa76-b925aa604fc1n@googlegroups.com> <t1i7ol$qu3$1@gioia.aioe.org> <77d303f0-e093-47cb-aad5-98e5c9a49771n@googlegroups.com> <t1igtq$1gts$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Message-ID	<69f9bd07-e3b1-4220-bbd8-ff3db951af6bn@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz
From	patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net>

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On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 12:31:10 PM UTC-7, bodk...@gmail.com wrote:
> patdolan <patd...@comcast.net> wrote: 
> > On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 9:54:50 AM UTC-7, bodk...@gmail.com wrote: 
> >> patdolan <patd...@comcast.net> wrote: 
> >>> On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 6:34:16 AM UTC-7, Townes Olson wrote: 
> >>>> On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 12:39:32 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote: 
> >>>>> Let's forget all about Relativity, velocity, time and distance. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Right, your fundamental misunderstanding is much more elementary, and 
> >>>> really has nothing to do with relativity in particular. 
> >>>>> Let's consider four well constructed strings in algebra: 
> >>>>> x' = ( x - vt )/sqrt[ 1 - (v/c)^2 ] 
> >>>>> t' = ( t - vx/c^2 )/sqrt[ 1 - (v/c)^2 ] 
> >>>>> x = ( x' + v't' )/sqrt[ 1 - (v'/c)^2 ] 
> >>>>> t = ( t' + v'x'/c^2 )/sqrt[ 1 - (v'/c)^2 ] 
> >>>>> Now let's show that v' = v can be derived using the above four well 
> >>>>> constructed strings. 
> >>>> That's a false proposition, because those equations imply only that v'= 
> >>>> v or -v - 2xt(1-v^2)/(t^2+2txv+x^2). You see, all your sophistries 
> >>>> reduce to the same kernel of idiocy, namely, your belief that the 
> >>>> relation f(a)=f(b) implies a=b. That's why you think 1=-1 is derivable 
> >>>> from arithmetic, and why you think v'=v is derivable from algebra. Your 
> >>>> brain can't grasp the concept of non-linear functions. 
> >>> 
> >>> Let me get this straight, Townes. You are saying that v' = v in my 
> >>> system of 4 equations is a false proposition. In other words, your 
> >>> testimony to this forum is that the equation 
> >>> 
> >>> v' = v 
> >>> 
> >>> can not be derived from the system of four equations. Correct? 
> >>> 
> >> No, that’s not true. You can do it the way I showed you in January, by 
> >> using the transformation equations to track the location of the origin of 
> >> one frame in the other frame. 
> >> 
> >> Or you can simply do algebra on the equations for x’ and t’ in terms of x, 
> >> t, and v, to find equations for x and t in terms of x’, t’, and v, as both 
> >> Paul and Townes showed you. Now you compare those to the equations of x and 
> >> t in terms of x’, t’, and v’ as you wrote them. They are identical if and 
> >> only if v=v’. 
> >> 
> >> It’s just algebra. 
> >> -- 
> >> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables 
> > 
> > If it's just algebra Bodkin, then why can't you, or Townes or Paul 
> > produce a theorem that reads "v' = v" from the four fundamental equations???? 
> >
> Read what I just said. Paul and Townes *just* walked you through that 
> algebra. Can you not even TRY to fill in some of the trivial steps 
> yourself? 
> 
> Start with x’(x,t,v) and t’(x,v,t). Those are shorthand for the Lorentz 
> transformation equations. Write them out in full glory. 
> 
> Now do the algebra to solve for x and t, so that you now have x(x’,t’,v) 
> and t(x’,t’,v). You’ve done nothing but algebra. 
> 
> Now compare these equations with your x(x’,t’,v’) and t(x’,t’,v’). You’ll 
> see they are the same only if v=v’.
> -- 
> Odd Bodkin -- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

Bodkin, I tell you that neither Townes nor Paul did that because nobody on earth can do that.  Not even Dirk.  Townes simply typed out a "v" then an apostrophe, then an equals sign, then another "v".  That's all the effort and all the thought he put into it.  Don't believe me?  Watch, Townes will NEVER provide a derivation.

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v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 16:14 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 23:48 +0000
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 17:04 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 10:44 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 09:55 -0500
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 16:21 +0000
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 15:12 -0500
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 21:44 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 22:51 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 19:39 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-26 20:27 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-27 12:37 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 10:38 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 17:52 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 14:47 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 19:53 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 15:18 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 20:57 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-29 18:50 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 14:29 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 22:15 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-27 14:33 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-03-24 18:53 -0500
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 13:57 +0000
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 18:46 -0700
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 23:08 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 23:29 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-23 23:48 -0700
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 00:22 -0700
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 00:39 -0700
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 06:34 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 06:45 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:27 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:27 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 09:40 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 16:54 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 10:04 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:31 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 12:36 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:46 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 20:07 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 13:26 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 21:44 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 22:01 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 16:04 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 17:18 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 17:26 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 17:54 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 17:59 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 18:16 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 09:12 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 15:11 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 09:51 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 09:55 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 17:03 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 10:09 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 17:19 +0000
                Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 10:39 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 10:46 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 17:52 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 10:59 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 12:01 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 12:00 -0700
                Village imbecile Pat Dolan inserts foot in mouth "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 10:38 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 12:03 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 12:46 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-24 18:28 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 18:46 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 10:01 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 10:30 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 17:37 +0000
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 11:01 -0700
                Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 11:24 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 11:56 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 12:04 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:34 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:43 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-24 22:16 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 13:26 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-25 11:16 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 14:58 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 00:52 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-25 21:58 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-27 23:56 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-28 13:09 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-29 11:48 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-29 19:25 +0000
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-03-30 11:07 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-03-30 12:02 -0700
                Re: Cretin Pat Dolan perseveres Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:31 +0000
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-24 15:41 -0400
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 12:44 -0700
                Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 12:49 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-23 23:54 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 11:27 +0000
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-26 00:45 +0100
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-25 17:01 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 10:48 +0000
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 10:38 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-26 16:25 +0100
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 08:37 -0700
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-26 16:41 +0100
              Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 10:51 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-26 19:04 +0100
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 10:46 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 13:13 +0000
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-26 17:03 +0000
            Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-26 17:12 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2022-03-26 19:17 +0100
          Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-26 12:12 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-24 13:43 +0100
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 13:53 +0000
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:01 +0000
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-24 14:01 +0000
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 09:34 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2022-03-24 19:20 +0100
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 11:51 -0700
    Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-24 18:11 -0700
      Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-03-24 18:16 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Townes Olson <townesolson7@gmail.com> - 2022-03-24 18:25 -0700
        Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-24 18:46 -0700
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Takabe Matsumura <tamu@frdesn.jp> - 2022-03-24 19:44 +0000
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Takabe Matsumura <tamu@frdesn.jp> - 2022-03-24 20:00 +0000
  Re: v' = v in the Transforms Lorentz Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2022-03-25 11:21 +1100

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