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Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT'

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT'
Date 2022-03-21 08:56 +0100
Message-ID <j9qpdfFch4rU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (23 earlier) <E8HYJ.174093$NCX1.145967@fx08.ams4> <j9ijcvFpfpjU1@mid.individual.net> <kxkZJ.431844$dS2.412920@fx11.ams4> <j9mssvFkgj5U1@mid.individual.net> <h9NZJ.332161$Sxe.325333@fx09.ams4>

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Am 20.03.2022 um 22:38 schrieb Paul B. Andersen:
>
>
> Den 19.03.2022 21:31, skrev Thomas Heger:
>> Am 19.03.2022 um 14:04 schrieb Paul B. Andersen:
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the 'current' you claim "flows with light speed"?
>>
>> I actually meant the speed of energy transport by electric currents in
>> a wire.
>
> OK.
> So now you have learned that 'current' doesn't
> move with the speed of light.


Ok

it's more or less a question about words.

You meant: electron flow IS current, while I meant: electrons flow is 
electrons flow and current is the transport of electrical energy.

I personally think, the entire particle concept is wrong and electrons 
are not real things, but certain states.

It would be therefore illogic to assume, that non-existing things would 
cause something real like current.

>>>
>>> Current is per definition I = dQ/dt, where Q is charge.
>>> Current is moving charge.
>
> Fact. Nothing to discuss.

Wrong

The assumption of real lasting particles is a hypothesis and most likely 
wrong.

E.g. so called 'pair creation' violates the conservation of the number 
of particles.

Also 'big bang theory' is not compatible with particles.

To call something 'fact. Nothing to discuss.' is bad practise at best.

>> In this particular case I would like to use other explanations than
>> yours.
>
> In this particular case you claimed that the charge
> in the wire moved with the speed of light.
> Now you know better.

No, I have written, the particles 'electron' move very slow, while 
current is very fast, hence the elctrons cannot be the carrier of the 
current.

In my view, the electron are 'states' and not the fundation of the field.

iow: no particles exist and the entire idea is a misconception, even if 
widely in use.

As proof of concept I had used 'Growing Earth' for about ten years.

I'm pretty certain, that GE is actually correct. But that theory has 
fallen under a strikt ban.


>>> What is "The Big Misconception About Electricity" in the video?
>>> It is that there is a charge (electrons) going from the source
>>> to the load at the speed of light. That is YOUR misconception.
>>
>> The misconception is yours actually, because you insisted on charge
>> flow as reason for currents.
>
> I insist that the 'charge flow' IS the current.

Actually we were not discussing 'charge' but electrons (charged particles).

You seemingly insist, that charge requires particles like e.g. 
electrons, while I reject this claim.

>> But you agree, that current and electrons movement have very different
>> speed.
>
> Not at all.
>
> The electrons ARE the moving charge which IS the current.
>
No

this is most likely wrong (mainly because 'electrons' are not real things).

>
>
> Now about Einstein's equation: W = mc²(1/√(1-v²/c²)-1)
>
> If you drive your car with mass m and speed v,
> then your kinetic energy is Ek = mv²/2.
>
> If you stop your car by applying your brakes, then the work
> done on your brake discs is W = mv²/2. The kinetic energy
> of your car is transformed to heat energy in the brake discs.
>
> It is remarkable that this isn't obvious to you.


It is a VERY bad idea, to think about the mass (and newtonian kinetic 
energy) of the elctron as reason for its behaviour.

In fact it is the charge, that matters.

> If the moving object is a charged particle, the kinetic
> energy is according to SR:
>
> Ek =  γmc² - mc² = mc²(γ-1)     γ = 1/√(1-v²/c²)
>
> If  the charged particle is stopped in an electric field,
> the work done on the electric field is obviously
> equal to the kinetic energy of the particle before
> it entered the field. In this case, the kinetic energy
> is transformed to increased energy in the electric field.
>
> W = Ek = mc²(γ-1)
>
> This is OBVIOUS.


Work and energy are closely related, but different things.

But you equated work and kinetic energy, what is wrong.

It is also wrong to ignore the main feature of electrons, which is the 
electric field.

>>
>> I have already said, that the equation IS nonsense! >
>> Einstein meant actually work with 'W', what can be seen in the equation:
>>
>> W= int(epsilon*X dx)
>
> If the electric field is constant E:  W =  ε⋅E⋅d
> where d = distance the particle has moved in the field when it stops.


Despite Einstein wanted to accelerate electrons...

But your equation is actually correct now, because  now you are getting 
work. Thus is the work done if the kinetic energy of the electron gets 
absorbed by the field.

This situation is having other problems with Einstein's equation, 
because deceleration causes changing velocity (obviously), while the 
equation contains only one.

That could be the velocity of the approach.

But in this case field strength cannot be constant anymore, because 
electric fields follow an inverse square law and do not simply stop 
somewhere.
Ssuch a 'border' would actually be necessary, since otherwise you cannot 
measure the distance d.

...


TH

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Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-13 09:28 +0100
  Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 12:45 +0100
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-13 04:58 -0700
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-13 13:01 +0100
  Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-13 14:39 +0100
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 11:00 +0100
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-14 12:27 -0400
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 08:17 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-15 10:36 +0000
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-15 14:19 -0400
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Buddy Good <erv@ervn.ni> - 2022-03-15 19:14 +0000
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-22 09:11 +0100
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-22 17:31 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-23 09:36 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-25 00:31 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-25 08:16 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-26 15:43 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-27 19:40 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-28 10:07 +0200
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-14 21:00 +0100
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-17 08:54 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-17 19:59 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-17 15:02 -0400
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-18 06:46 +0100
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-18 03:18 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-19 07:45 +0100
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-15 11:39 +0200
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 07:54 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-16 03:16 -0400
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:09 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-16 10:55 +0200
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:15 +0100
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-17 13:48 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-18 08:16 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-18 13:05 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-19 07:50 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-19 13:05 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-20 08:47 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-20 13:04 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-21 08:27 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-21 11:13 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-21 20:58 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-03-22 19:32 +0200
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-22 17:09 -0400
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-03-15 11:26 +0100
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-15 14:36 +0100
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-15 14:22 -0400
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-03-15 22:14 +0100
  Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-14 08:58 +0100
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-14 19:15 +0100
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 08:03 +0100
        Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-15 10:39 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-15 17:19 +0100
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-15 12:24 -0700
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 08:02 +0100
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-16 10:16 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:19 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-16 21:03 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-17 07:51 +0100
          Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 08:26 +0100
            Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-16 10:28 +0100
              Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-16 21:38 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2022-03-16 21:03 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-17 08:07 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-17 14:59 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-18 06:24 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Michael Moroney <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> - 2022-03-18 03:25 -0400
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-19 08:05 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 00:20 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-19 09:25 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-19 15:35 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-19 15:28 +0000
                Cretin Richard Lengrand at work "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-03-19 10:13 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-20 08:41 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-19 14:04 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-19 15:14 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-19 21:31 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-20 22:38 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-20 22:23 +0000
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-21 08:56 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-21 11:52 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-21 04:43 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-21 21:26 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-22 22:40 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-23 09:55 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-23 11:19 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-24 08:54 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-24 15:00 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-25 08:25 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-03-25 15:15 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-03-25 07:39 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-26 10:51 +0100
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-03-26 12:30 -0700
                Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Takabe Matsumura <tamu@frdesn.jp> - 2022-03-24 17:35 +0000
  Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-03-14 12:18 +0000
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-15 08:24 +0100
    Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Python <python@example.invalid> - 2022-03-15 17:17 +0100
      Re: New rewritten version of 'annotated version of SRT' Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-03-22 09:36 +0100

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