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Visualizing

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  Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-06 07:53 -0700
    Re: Visualizing Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-06 15:08 +0000
      Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-07 07:04 +0000
        Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 07:39 -0700
          Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-08 06:44 +0000
            Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-08 09:39 -0700
              Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-09 06:02 +0000
                Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-09 08:59 -0700
                Re: Visualizing Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-10 19:54 +0000
                  Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-11 12:37 +1000
      Re: Visualizing Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2024-09-07 16:34 +0100
        Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 09:07 -0700
          Re: Visualizing Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2024-09-07 18:16 +0100
            Re: Visualizing Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2024-09-07 23:06 +0200
        Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-07 10:29 -0700
    Re: Visualizing "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-06 11:24 -0400
    Re: Visualizing Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-06 11:27 -0400
      Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-06 08:59 -0700
        Re: Visualizing Wanderer<dont@emailme.com> - 2024-09-06 01:30 +0000
          Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-06 11:38 -0700
          Re: Visualizing "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-06 14:56 -0400
            Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-06 12:00 -0700
              Re: Visualizing "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-06 15:11 -0400
                Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-06 12:17 -0700
              Re: Visualizing john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-06 12:23 -0700
          Re: Visualizing john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-06 12:19 -0700
            Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-07 14:53 +1000
              Re: Visualizing Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> - 2024-09-07 10:03 -0400
                Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 07:50 -0700
                  Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-08 01:46 +1000
                    Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 09:15 -0700
                      Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-08 16:55 +1000
                        Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-08 09:35 -0700
                          Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-09 14:54 +1000
                            Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-08 22:06 -0700
                              Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-09 17:48 +1000
                  Re: Visualizing Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> - 2024-09-07 12:08 -0400
                    Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 09:21 -0700
                    Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-07 10:25 -0700
                Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-07 10:17 -0700
        Re: Visualizing wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2024-09-06 12:06 -0700
          Re: Visualizing john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-06 12:29 -0700
        Re: Visualizing Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-06 19:21 -0400
          Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-06 18:19 -0700
          Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 08:38 -0700
            Re: Visualizing Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-07 14:18 -0400
              Re: Visualizing Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-07 19:06 -0400
          Re: Visualizing Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-07 18:50 -0400
            Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 17:01 -0700
              Re: Visualizing Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2024-09-08 00:09 +0000
                Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 20:44 -0700
        Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-07 07:29 +0000
          Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 07:56 -0700
            Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-08 07:02 +0000
              Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-08 09:27 -0700
                Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-09 06:25 +0000
                  Re: Visualizing john larkin <jl@650pot.com> - 2024-09-09 11:59 -0700
                    Re: Visualizing Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2024-09-10 15:13 +1000
    Re: Visualizing "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-06 11:42 -0400
      Re: Visualizing Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2024-09-06 16:55 +0100
      Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-06 11:14 -0700
        Re: Visualizing "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-06 14:47 -0400
          Re: Visualizing Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2024-09-06 11:58 -0700
            Re: Visualizing "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-06 15:07 -0400
    Re: Visualizing Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2024-09-06 16:08 -0700
      Re: Visualizing Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2024-09-07 13:50 -0400
        Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-08 09:41 -0700
    Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-07 06:58 +0000
      Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-07 08:26 -0700
        Re: Visualizing Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2024-09-08 07:14 +0000
          Re: Visualizing john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> - 2024-09-08 09:13 -0700
    Re: Visualizing brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2024-09-07 13:10 +0100
    Re: Visualizing Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> - 2024-09-08 15:56 +0000

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#725786 — Visualizing

I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.

What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 

I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.

Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?

If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.

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#725788

john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
> 
> 
> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
> 
> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
> 
> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
> visual image.
> 
> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
> 
> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
> 
> 

Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
Apparently that’s most people. 

But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else. 

Cheers 

Phil Hobbs 

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs  Principal Consultant  ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics  Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

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#725833

On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
<vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:

>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>> 
>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>> 
>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>> visual image.
>> 
>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>> 
>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>> 
>> 
>
>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>Apparently that’s most people. 

I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
Been doing that since the seventies.
All the noise in your head you collect during the day is silenced.


>But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else. 

Oh, I dunno, humming beans are very similar
Even any-malls or was it animals are a lot like us.

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#725846

On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>
>>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>> 
>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>> 
>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>> visual image.
>>> 
>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>> 
>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>> 
>>> 
>>
>>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>>Apparently that’s most people. 
>
>I never had that.
>I do 2 hours of meditation a day.

But you could sleep for those two hours!

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#725881

On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:

>On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>>> 
>>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>>> 
>>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>>> visual image.
>>>> 
>>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>> 
>>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>
>>>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>>>Apparently that’s most people. 
>>
>>I never had that.
>>I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
>
>But you could sleep for those two hours!

Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.
Lots of activity here so you _will_ be woken up.
Worked long hours for many years (in broadcasting from early morning to end transmission at night),
travel home, go to sleep, wake up, back to work...
We had a schedule 2 days up 1 day off.
basically it was: for every night you worked you gained half a free day,
well in the sixties and seventies, no idea what they do now. 
Some of you earth creatures sleep for month at the time, like those 4 legged white polar earthlings..

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#725899

On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin
><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
>>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>>>> visual image.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>>> 
>>>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>>>>Apparently that’s most people. 
>>>
>>>I never had that.
>>>I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
>>
>>But you could sleep for those two hours!
>
>Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.

Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.

I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of
everyday life. My wife has nightmares.

I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up
briefly to take notes.


>Lots of activity here so you _will_ be woken up.
>Worked long hours for many years (in broadcasting from early morning to end transmission at night),
>travel home, go to sleep, wake up, back to work...
>We had a schedule 2 days up 1 day off.
>basically it was: for every night you worked you gained half a free day,
>well in the sixties and seventies, no idea what they do now. 
>Some of you earth creatures sleep for month at the time, like those 4 legged white polar earthlings..

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#725912

On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin
>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
>>>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>>>>> visual image.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>>>>>Apparently that’s most people. 
>>>>
>>>>I never had that.
>>>>I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
>>>
>>>But you could sleep for those two hours!
>>
>>Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.
>
>Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.
>
>I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of
>everyday life. My wife has nightmares.
>
>I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up
>briefly to take notes.

Do not even have a pen near to my bed :-)
As to 'visualizing' sound,
I remember you talking about alligator sounds messing with some measurements
now imagine (visualize) a very young alligator making a more high pitched sound...
There is music! rhythmhythm counts too.

Visualizing... you are in the garden, big disc like thing descends next to you on the grass
sort of a door opens, clever looking creature steps out,
says "are you John Larkin?" you acknowledge, creature asks for a Ge PNP transistor to fix his disc ..
you have none, wants to help fix his spacecraft, creature shows his electronic box
with all sorts of stuff in it, little blobs covering little chips
funny connectors, joystick for steering his disc and a picture of his Ohm planet...
you design a replacement circuit for the GE PNP ... solder it in place,
creature is grateful and gives you a little box , goes back in the disc and warps away
You open the box and see 
 Russian doll Matroesjka ?

After posting about China wanting to do a Mars return here,
now ELon wants to do a manned Mars mission before 2028 I just did read.
It is all over the net:
 https://www.notebookcheck.net/Elon-Musk-pegs-the-first-human-flight-to-Mars-for-2028-with-a-colony-to-follow-in-20-years.885865.0.html

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#725923

On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:02:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin
><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin
>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
>>>>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>>>>>> visual image.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>>>>>>Apparently that’s most people. 
>>>>>
>>>>>I never had that.
>>>>>I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
>>>>
>>>>But you could sleep for those two hours!
>>>
>>>Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.
>>
>>Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.
>>
>>I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of
>>everyday life. My wife has nightmares.
>>
>>I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up
>>briefly to take notes.
>
>Do not even have a pen near to my bed :-)
>As to 'visualizing' sound,
>I remember you talking about alligator sounds messing with some measurements
>now imagine (visualize) a very young alligator making a more high pitched sound...
>There is music! rhythmhythm counts too.

I designed an acoustic monitoring system for NASA, for measuring sound
levels around their Mississippi Test Facility, where they tested the
moon rocket engines. It was claimed that my electronics was
oscillating at low frerquencies. After some research, it was
determined to be subsonic mating calls of bull alligators, which may
have been previously unknown.

We used a temperature-controlled GR electret microphone, new
technology at the time. I dumped it into a jfet follower with no gate
resistor, which was controversial.



>
>Visualizing... you are in the garden, big disc like thing descends next to you on the grass
>sort of a door opens, clever looking creature steps out,
>says "are you John Larkin?" you acknowledge, creature asks for a Ge PNP transistor to fix his disc ..
>you have none, wants to help fix his spacecraft, creature shows his electronic box
>with all sorts of stuff in it, little blobs covering little chips
>funny connectors, joystick for steering his disc and a picture of his Ohm planet...
>you design a replacement circuit for the GE PNP ... solder it in place,
>creature is grateful and gives you a little box , goes back in the disc and warps away
>You open the box and see 
> Russian doll Matroesjka ?
>
>After posting about China wanting to do a Mars return here,
>now ELon wants to do a manned Mars mission before 2028 I just did read.
>It is all over the net:
> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Elon-Musk-pegs-the-first-human-flight-to-Mars-for-2028-with-a-colony-to-follow-in-20-years.885865.0.html

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#725969

On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:02:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin
> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
> <2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:
> 
>>On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john
>>>larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
>>><mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
>>>>>Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author.
>>>>>>> It was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd
>>>>>>> had with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and
>>>>>>> asked him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone,
>>>>>>> could close their eyes and *see* something they were thinking
>>>>>>> about.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a
>>>>>>> mental visual image.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate
>>>>>>> with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see
>>>>>>> it? From the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The
>>>>>>> colors? Imagine it slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and
>>>>>>> people who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>>>>>>Apparently that’s most people.
>>>>>
>>>>>I never had that.
>>>>>I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
>>>>
>>>>But you could sleep for those two hours!
>>>
>>>Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4
>>>hours or so.
>>
>>Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.
>>
>>I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of
>>everyday life. My wife has nightmares.
>>
>>I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up briefly
>>to take notes.
> 
> Do not even have a pen near to my bed :-)
> As to 'visualizing' sound,
> I remember you talking about alligator sounds messing with some
> measurements now imagine (visualize) a very young alligator making a
> more high pitched sound...
> There is music! rhythmhythm counts too.
> 
> Visualizing... you are in the garden, big disc like thing descends next
> to you on the grass sort of a door opens, clever looking creature steps
> out,
> says "are you John Larkin?" you acknowledge, creature asks for a Ge PNP
> transistor to fix his disc ..
> you have none, wants to help fix his spacecraft, creature shows his
> electronic box with all sorts of stuff in it, little blobs covering
> little chips funny connectors, joystick for steering his disc and a
> picture of his Ohm planet...
> you design a replacement circuit for the GE PNP ... solder it in place,
> creature is grateful and gives you a little box , goes back in the disc
> and warps away You open the box and see
>  Russian doll Matroesjka ?
> 
> After posting about China wanting to do a Mars return here,
> now ELon wants to do a manned Mars mission before 2028 I just did read.
> It is all over the net:
>  https://www.notebookcheck.net/Elon-Musk-pegs-the-first-human-flight-to-
Mars-for-2028-with-a-colony-to-follow-in-20-years.885865.0.html

Elon Musk is the Henry Ford of his day, Jan. A true pioneer. The fact that 
his business managed to survive all those catastrophic car fires whilst 
the occupants were locked inside by the car's brain testifies to that 
achievement.

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#725970

On 11/09/2024 5:54 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:02:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> 
>> On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin
>> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
>> <2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john
>>>> larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
>>>> <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
>>>>>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
>>>>>> <vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:

<snip>

> Elon Musk is the Henry Ford of his day, Jan. A true pioneer. The fact that
> his business managed to survive all those catastrophic car fires whilst
> the occupants were locked inside by the car's brain testifies to that
> achievement.

Henry Ford subsidised Adolf Hitler at a critical point early in Hitler's 
political career - Henry Ford was just as anti-semitic as Hitler, and 
approved of Adolf Hitler's insane rants on the subject.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/06/technology/elon-musk-donald-trump-influence.html

Are we seeing history repeat itself?

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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#725851

On 06/09/2024 16:08, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>
>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
>>
>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>> visual image.

There is also visual recall of something you have seen which is slightly 
different. Eidetic memory is the most extreme form.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory

>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>
>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.

I have always assumed that most people can do it to some extent. The 
next level up is being able to look at something (or imagine it) and 
then carve it or construct one in 3D. Very few people can do that.

> Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
> Apparently that’s most people.

Using visual memory is one way to beat a classic Alzheimer's test by 
imagining an apple, balanced on a ball sat on a chair. It doesn't seem 
to suffer the same degradation as normal short term abstract memory.

> But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else.

Indeed. The people who I admire the most are composers who can image 
roughly what an entire orchestra will sound like playing their newly 
written score. That takes an incredible amount of aural imagining.

We also have no way of knowing if what I experience for red colour is 
the same as what you see for red. Some colour blind people really do see 
the world differently (most common red-green colour blindness). But the 
ones with slightly extended near IR vision through 4 types of cones had 
advantages in warfare since they can distinguish growing vegetation from 
cut and dying vegetation that has been used for camouflage.

-- 
Martin Brown

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#725856

On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 16:34:22 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

>On 06/09/2024 16:08, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>>
>>> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
>>>
>>> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>> visual image.
>
>There is also visual recall of something you have seen which is slightly 
>different. Eidetic memory is the most extreme form.
>
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory
>
>>> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>
>>> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>
>I have always assumed that most people can do it to some extent. The 
>next level up is being able to look at something (or imagine it) and 
>then carve it or construct one in 3D. Very few people can do that.
>
>> Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
>> Apparently that’s most people.
>
>Using visual memory is one way to beat a classic Alzheimer's test by 
>imagining an apple, balanced on a ball sat on a chair. It doesn't seem 
>to suffer the same degradation as normal short term abstract memory.
>
>> But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else.
>
>Indeed. The people who I admire the most are composers who can image 
>roughly what an entire orchestra will sound like playing their newly 
>written score. That takes an incredible amount of aural imagining.
>
>We also have no way of knowing if what I experience for red colour is 
>the same as what you see for red. Some colour blind people really do see 
>the world differently (most common red-green colour blindness). But the 
>ones with slightly extended near IR vision through 4 types of cones had 
>advantages in warfare since they can distinguish growing vegetation from 
>cut and dying vegetation that has been used for camouflage.

I suppose that being nearsighted has social-evolutionary advantages.
Some people shoot arrows, some people make arrows.

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#725860

On 07/09/2024 17:07, john larkin wrote:

> I suppose that being nearsighted has social-evolutionary advantages.
> Some people shoot arrows, some people make arrows.

Having extreme visual acuity was highly prized back in the days before 
there were optical aids. Roman centurions had an eye test for lookouts 
based on splitting the close double epsilon Lyra (which is at the limit 
3' arc of the human eye). I could do it when I was younger.

A very small number of children and young adults can see the Galilean 
moons of Jupiter at greatest extension from the planet (a feat that most 
people need a telescope or binoculars for hence Galileo's discovery). 
Seeing them against the planet's glare requires both good optical figure 
lens and very clear fluid gel in the eyeball.

Splitting Alcor & Mizar in the plough is easy by comparison (anyone with 
20/20 vision should be able to do that). Ancients used it that way too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizar_and_Alcor


-- 
Martin Brown

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#725868

On 9/7/24 19:16, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 07/09/2024 17:07, john larkin wrote:
> 
>> I suppose that being nearsighted has social-evolutionary advantages.
>> Some people shoot arrows, some people make arrows.
> 
> Having extreme visual acuity was highly prized back in the days before 
> there were optical aids. Roman centurions had an eye test for lookouts 
> based on splitting the close double epsilon Lyra (which is at the limit 
> 3' arc of the human eye). I could do it when I was younger.
> 
> A very small number of children and young adults can see the Galilean 
> moons of Jupiter at greatest extension from the planet (a feat that most 
> people need a telescope or binoculars for hence Galileo's discovery). 
> Seeing them against the planet's glare requires both good optical figure 
> lens and very clear fluid gel in the eyeball.
> 
> Splitting Alcor & Mizar in the plough is easy by comparison (anyone with 
> 20/20 vision should be able to do that). Ancients used it that way too.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizar_and_Alcor
> 
> 

I was surprised when my 3-year old son described venus as a 'little 
moon'. To my unaided eyes, it was just an unusually bright pinpoint.

Jeroen Belleman

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#725863

On 9/7/2024 8:34 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> There is also visual recall of something you have seen which is slightly 
> different. Eidetic memory is the most extreme form.

Watch an (good?) artist mixing a specific color of paint.  They
"know" what the color needs to be (and how to tint what they
have already mixed to get to that point).

*Assuming* you know how to mix secondary/tertiary colors, trying
to mix an *arbitrary* color is REALLY challenging.  Consider
needing to mix *more* of a color that you have previously mixed
(wet paint and dry paint "look" different) without "lap lines".

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#725790

"john larkin" <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in message news:6u4mdjt3d32biaavd02a2cfebsgtd5kapa@4ax.com...
>
>
> I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>
> What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
>
> I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
> visual image.
>
> Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?

Yes I can see the fruit fly around the room if I want.
Not sure where the fly went.
The human imagination is not bounded by reality.

>
> If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
> 

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#725791

On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:

>
>
>I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>
>What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>
>I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>visual image.
>
>Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>
>If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>who can't, that could explain a great deal.

There are definitely such people, and I've met them.  The example that
springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s.  It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues.  This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons.  So he switched to History.

Joe Gwinn

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#725795

On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>
>>What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>
>>I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>visual image.
>>
>>Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>
>>If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>
>There are definitely such people, and I've met them.  The example that
>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
>the 1960s.  It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
>his colleagues.  This TA was wise enough to know that this was
>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
>visualize electrons.  So he switched to History.
>
>Joe Gwinn

The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.

There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for
example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.

I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.

That would suggest a good interview question.

I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.

I think the original IQ test was for the military.

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#725797

On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:

>>On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
>>>
>>>What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
>>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about. 
>>>
>>>I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
>>>visual image.
>>>
>>>Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
>>>
>>>If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
>>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
>>
>>There are definitely such people, and I've met them.  The example that
>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
>>the 1960s.  It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
>>his colleagues.  This TA was wise enough to know that this was
>>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
>>visualize electrons.  So he switched to History.
>>
>>Joe Gwinn

>The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
>thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
>time.

>There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for
>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
>faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.

>I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
>be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.

>That would suggest a good interview question.

>I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
>Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
>from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
>to a Marine.

>I think the original IQ test was for the military.

Baloney. I don't think I really visualize things. I don't see things floating
in front of me. I feel it. Sort of like closing your eyes and feeling an object in
your hand. I know it from all angles, its insides and outsides, its texture, 
its solidity, its weight... It's kind of the sculptor versus the painter but
that is the information a good painter is getting across in his painting. I don't
have problems with 3D puzzles. In high school, I had study class with the teacher
who taught remedial students. One day there were all these 3D puzzles out that 
they used to test these kids cognitive ability. I walked over and solved them all
in a couple of minutes. I didn't realize I had done anything special. I thought
I just played with the toys. Until I turned around and saw the teacher staring at 
me. A couple of them no one had been able to solve.

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#725801

On 9/6/2024 1:30 AM, Wanderer wrote:
> Baloney. I don't think I really visualize things. I don't see things floating
> in front of me.

If asked to visualize your spouse/offspring's faces, don't you conjure an
image?  What about thinking about the ocean?  Mountains?  Is there nothing
*visual* that comes to mind?

If someone mention's the dentist's *drill*, can you not hear the high pitched
whine?  Smell the collagen being ground up?

> I feel it. Sort of like closing your eyes and feeling an object in
> your hand. I know it from all angles, its insides and outsides, its texture,
> its solidity, its weight... It's kind of the sculptor versus the painter but
> that is the information a good painter is getting across in his painting. I don't
> have problems with 3D puzzles. In high school, I had study class with the teacher
> who taught remedial students. One day there were all these 3D puzzles out that
> they used to test these kids cognitive ability. I walked over and solved them all
> in a couple of minutes. I didn't realize I had done anything special. I thought
> I just played with the toys. Until I turned around and saw the teacher staring at
> me. A couple of them no one had been able to solve.

This was a common type of "IQ" test when I was young.  A 2D representation
of 3D objects and you had to pick which of the offered choices represented the
"unseen side".  You needed a sort of intuition to know the correct rendering
as exploring each option systematically would take too much time (tests
were always time-limited)

It's the same sort of skill that lets folks assemble items purchased in
an unassembled form.

Or, play chess.

For multithreaded and object-oriented software, it's an essential skill
as the interactions are more 3+ dimensional than, for example, simple
procedural programming languages.

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