Groups > sci.electronics.design > #489835

Re: AC switch fault current philosophy

From	ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: AC switch fault current philosophy
Date	2017-12-30 23:14 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<p29o7e$5fr$1@news.eternal-september.org> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <8a97501a-8718-416a-b43f-dd7c9b26cbcc@googlegroups.com> <babfccae-0e73-44bb-b8c2-cdc7879d29fc@googlegroups.com> <4bbf77a0-0584-418b-b85d-184ae0f4a2c1@googlegroups.com> <p29bu9$cig$1@news.eternal-september.org> <3d22951d-05ed-4ddd-b091-d8ae4936a8dd@googlegroups.com>

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On 12/30/2017 7:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> ehsjr troll wrote:
> 
> ----------------
> 
>>
>> The mains supply breaker is NOT intended nor designed to protect the
>> power using equipment.  That breaker is there to protect the permanent
>> wiring from the panel to the outlet to which the power using equipment
>> is connected.
>>
> 
> ** Essentially true, but the nest bit is not.
> 
> 
>> Relying on the mains breaker to make the power using
>> equipment safe in the event of a fault in that equipment is wrong,
>> unsafe and stupid everywhere,
> 
> 
> ** Bollocks.
> 
>    
> 
>> and is illegal in the USA.
> 
> 
> 
> ** Really ??
> 
>    So all US appliances have fuses fitted ??

No. If the equipment is listed by a certified testing laboratory such
as the UL (Underwriters Laboratory) (or other accepted testing lab)
the lab is saying, in effect, it was manufactured in accordance with
the rules and meets electrical (and other) safety requirements. If
a fuse (or breaker or whatever) is required and the device doesn't
have it, it won't be listed, nor will it be legal for the manufacturer
to sell it in the US.

You could spend months reading all the applicable rules and regulations
concerning product electrical safety, but I believe the precis above
captures the essence.  If you want to do some wading through it, it's
probably best to start with the NEC and the UL White Book.
(links below)

Ed

You can wade through the wording of our National Electrical Code
article 90-7 (et al) if you like:
https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/EES-HTML/HTML/LabeledListedNECOSHA~20030107.htm

and the UL white book:
https://www.ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/UL-White-Book.pdf?utm_source=multiple&#038;utm_medium=vanity&#038;utm_campaign=codeauthoritieswhitebook

> 
> 
> ....  Phil
>

Thread

AC switch fault current philosophy Piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-28 12:29 +0000
  Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-28 04:47 -0800
    Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-28 16:53 +0000
    Re: AC switch fault current philosophy George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-12-28 13:16 -0800
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-28 16:51 -0800
  Re: AC switch fault current philosophy "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-12-28 09:03 -0600
    Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-28 17:00 +0000
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2017-12-28 20:21 +0100
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-12-28 11:57 -0800
        Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2017-12-29 12:45 +0000
          Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-12-29 05:13 -0800
          Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2017-12-31 10:57 +0100
  Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-12-28 18:45 +0000
    Re: AC switch fault current philosophy "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-12-28 14:16 -0600
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-01-03 17:57 +0000
        Re: AC switch fault current philosophy "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2018-01-03 14:29 -0600
          Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-01-03 20:54 +0000
            Re: AC switch fault current philosophy "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2018-01-03 15:05 -0600
              Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-01-03 22:07 +0000
    Re: AC switch fault current philosophy pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-12-28 12:27 -0800
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-28 13:16 -0800
        Re: AC switch fault current philosophy pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-12-28 14:42 -0800
          Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-28 15:25 -0800
            Re: AC switch fault current philosophy pcdhobbs@gmail.com - 2017-12-28 19:04 -0800
              Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-29 06:20 -0800
              Re: AC switch fault current philosophy George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-12-29 15:48 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-29 18:59 -0500
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-29 17:03 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-12-30 07:49 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-29 19:47 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-12-30 11:42 +0200
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-30 02:01 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-12-30 22:12 +0200
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-30 15:20 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-12-31 14:12 +0200
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-30 16:33 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-31 18:30 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2017-12-30 19:00 -0500
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-30 21:13 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-12-31 14:36 +0200
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-31 04:47 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-31 06:00 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-31 17:39 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2018-01-01 04:19 +0000
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-31 21:38 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-31 05:54 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2018-01-01 22:25 -0500
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2018-01-02 06:27 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-01-02 10:10 -0500
              Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Piotr Wyderski <peter.pan@neverland.mil> - 2017-12-31 11:29 +0100
            Re: AC switch fault current philosophy ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2017-12-30 19:44 -0500
              Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-30 16:52 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2017-12-30 23:14 -0500
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-12-30 20:33 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2018-01-01 18:11 -0500
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2018-01-01 17:26 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2018-01-01 18:51 -0800
                Re: AC switch fault current philosophy ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net> - 2018-01-02 23:51 -0500
              Re: AC switch fault current philosophy tabbypurr@gmail.com - 2017-12-31 05:51 -0800
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2017-12-29 14:19 +0000
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy glen walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2017-12-29 16:03 +0000
      Re: AC switch fault current philosophy "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> - 2017-12-29 20:01 -0800
        Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-29 23:49 -0500
  Re: AC switch fault current philosophy Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-12-28 12:48 -0700
  Re: AC switch fault current philosophy George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> - 2017-12-28 13:28 -0800

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