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Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027

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On Sat, 7 Feb 2026 11:37:18 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

>Am 06.02.26 um 20:06 schrieb john larkin:
>> On Fri, 6 Feb 2026 17:47:52 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6/02/2026 3:36 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 12:38:36 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 05.02.26 um 06:01 schrieb Bill Sloman:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our XO is 25 MHz. We use a PLL inside the FPGA to multiply that to 250
>>>>>>> MHz, which clocks the DDS phase accumulator and some other logic.
>>>>>>> That's free.
>>>>>
>>>>> In an ideal world, that costs 20 dB of phase noise for the f*10.
>>>>> The real world is usually worse.
>>>>
>>>> The DDS and subsequent dividers buy back that noise.
>>>
>>> Really? Do explain how.
>
>The DDS is a frequency divider, so the same jitter at a lower
>frequency is an improvement of the modulation index.
>
>In the real world, there is the ground bounce of 10000s of
>flipflops that adds to the generated clock, a shorted phase
>accumulator, a shorted sine table, a bad DAC, VCC noise,
>buffer amplifier etc, so I would not pin my hopes too high.

Part of our X116 prototype board was to experiment with signal
crosstalk in the Efinix T20 FPGA. We ran some signals from pin to pin,
over various paths, and measured the delay and jitter. We
enabled/disabled some other logic blocks, including the DDS and four
long pseudorandom shift registers.

We resolved zero crosstalk effects. We did conclude that a very good
1.2 volt dedicated core voltage supply is worth having.

>
>The phase noise of the PLL VCO is probably nothing to write
>home about. Maybe a chain-of-inverters oscillator loaded by
>varicaps, no hi-Q structure that suppresses all noise more
>than a KHz away at 100 MHz.
>Improving the phase noise via 3V3 Vtune and the phase
>comparator / low pass is probably hopeless.
>
>Remember, jitter is phase noise integrated over all frequencies.
>Quieting as much frequencies as possible is a good thing.
>
>>>>> I think the ECOC2522 100 MHz oven is at quite a good price/
>>>>> performance ratio
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.digikey.de/de/products/detail/ecs-inc/ECOC-2522-100-000-3FC/6578492
>>>>
>>>> That's about the cost of all the parts on this product. And more power
>>>> consumption.
>
>They have also
><   https://www.digikey.de/de/products/detail/taitien 
>NA-100M-6911/9649712   >
>for €1150 each, but with impressive phase noise of -180 dBc/Hz
>a few KHz away @ 100 MHz. Not completely impossible, but close
>to the wall.
>See U. Rhode's and/or Rubiola's article on phase noise collapse
>in cross correlation measurements.
>
>>>> This will be the internal trigger option for a pulse generator. Sub-ns
>>>> RMS jitter will be fine.
>
>Horses for courses.
>I'm more interested in high frequencies as in X-band.

RF is a different world from pulse generation. Different personalities
even.

>
>>> So it is cheap crap. You've just admitted it.
>
>Can't you abstain from these cheap poison shots?
>I mean, ALL OF YOU?
>It takes the fun out of s.e.d.

And it chases good people away.

>
>Gerhard

John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-02 04:38 -0700
  Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 07:37 -0800
    Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-02-02 11:37 -0500
      Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 08:57 -0800
        Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-03 15:15 -0800
          Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 00:59 +1100
            Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-04 08:52 -0800
              Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 16:37 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-05 08:13 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-06 17:43 +1100
  Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 10:05 -0800
    Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-02-02 13:47 -0500
      Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-02 12:07 -0700
    Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-02-02 14:33 -0800
      Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 17:29 -0800
        Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-02-02 19:37 -0800
          Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 20:47 -0800
            Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-03 16:08 +1100
            Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-02-03 08:03 -0800
              Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-03 08:24 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-04 16:39 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-04 03:37 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-04 23:50 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-04 08:33 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 16:01 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-02-05 12:38 +0100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-05 08:36 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-06 17:47 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-06 11:06 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-07 15:32 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-07 08:24 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 15:26 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-02-07 11:37 +0100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 00:16 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-02-07 15:45 +0100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 02:35 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-07 16:37 +0000
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 15:13 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-08 12:38 +0000
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-09 00:59 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-07 08:54 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 15:43 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-02-07 19:13 +0100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-07 10:51 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-02-07 15:06 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 15:56 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 15:53 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-07 08:38 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 15:58 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-07 08:34 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-08 16:00 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-05 08:29 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-06 17:56 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-06 03:56 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-07 00:48 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-06 09:06 -0800
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-07 15:44 +1100
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-02-04 10:52 -0500
                Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-04 08:47 -0800
  Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-02-02 14:11 -0500
    Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-02 12:24 -0700
      Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-07 06:51 -0700
    Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-02 19:31 -0500
    Re: AI Will Create More Jobs Than It Eliminates By 2027 john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 19:33 -0800

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