Re: software situation

From	Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: software situation
Date	2026-03-27 18:24 +0000
Organization	To protect and to server
Message-ID	<10q6i09$25egd$2@paganini.bofh.team> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <OWidndzK1dcBSVj0nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> <10q4oi4$3bqmu$1@dont-email.me> <10q51ou$3ef31$1@dont-email.me> <10q5ksb$23j46$1@paganini.bofh.team> <10q5tmb$3n5l3$1@dont-email.me>

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Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"The fallacy of RAID is that the larger the array, the more likely            |
|a *second* fault manifests while attempting to recover from the               |
|first."                                                                       |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Hmm. How so? I had not heard this before. (I never yet am responsible
for a RAID, but Don Y incites me to be skeptical about RAID boasts
should I ever become responsible for a RAID.)

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"It's like having gold speaker wires -- something to brag                     |
|about that has no real value in most cases."                                  |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

But redundancies are really valuable in most cases. I make backups. I
might not use a RAID, but I am not going to give up on backups!

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"There was a 128 byte structure buried in the design implemented triply       |
|redundantly.  *AS* three structures having identical values located in        |
|contiguous blocks of memory.                                                  |
|                                                                              |
|The number of ways that such an approach could fail that could not be         |
|reliably detected (e.g., address failure, device failure, etc.) was laughable.|
|And, the recovery algorithm was poorly conceived (what if no two copies       |
|agree COMPLETELY?  Do you install a default value?  What should that value    |
|be?  If predictable, then this is an attack vector...)"                       |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Oscar Portela Arjona and I worked on software for a satellite platform
(important because if the platform is faulty then no payload can
succeed) and for a payload of this mission (which in a sense is less
important). We did not design a payload-computing layout. This
payload-computing layout was designed to be redundant due to the
motivation that in space they use redundancy for critical systems to
be safe. So Oscar Portela Arjona insightfully contrasted this
uncritical payload's redundant computers with this critical platform's
single (i.e. non-redundant) computer. Oscar Portela Arjona was so
angry at mismanagers that Oscar Portela Arjona quit.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"This is the same mentality behind folks adopting RAID or ZFS needlessly.     |
|They don't think their decision through and, instead, convince themselves     |
|that they have taken concrete measures to improve the reliability             |
|of their data!  (how often should you do a patrol read?  how do you           |
|respond to errors detected/corrected?  what criteria do you use to            |
|retire media?  do you support a hot spare?  how many??)"                      |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

I tried ZFS (via an open-Solaris distribution); UFS (via
e.g. FreeBSD); ext (via Linux); Minix; and even FAT (via FreeDOS,
avoiding installing a never installed copy of Windows XP still in its
shrinkwrapping) in 2008. Only ZFS (Solaris) thereof became corrupted:
and it became corrupted (and unbootable) within only a few days of
testing!
(S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

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software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-26 10:58 -0700
  Re: software situation Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@koi8.net> - 2026-03-26 20:29 +0000
    Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-26 17:51 -0700
      Re: software situation Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@koi8.net> - 2026-03-27 02:03 +0000
        Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-26 21:41 -0700
          Re: software situation Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@koi8.net> - 2026-03-27 06:09 +0000
            Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 04:15 -0700
          Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-27 10:07 +0000
            Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 05:37 -0700
              Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-27 18:24 +0000
                Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 12:04 -0700
                Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-27 22:35 +0000
                Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 15:58 -0700
                Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-29 09:24 +0000
        Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 10:00 -0700
          Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 10:17 -0700
            Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 10:32 -0700
              Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-27 11:22 -0700
              Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 11:34 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-28 06:41 -0700
                Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-28 13:56 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-29 05:53 -0700
                Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-29 12:39 -0700
                Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-29 13:13 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-29 14:29 -0700
                Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-29 15:24 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-29 20:54 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-29 21:07 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-29 21:16 -0700
                Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-30 07:44 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-30 09:02 -0700
                Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-30 16:00 -0700
                Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-29 17:09 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-29 20:48 -0700
              Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-27 21:38 +0000
      Re: software situation someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-27 04:30 +0000
      Re: software situation Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-27 10:35 -0700
        Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 11:27 -0700
          Re: software situation Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2026-03-27 11:46 -0700
            Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 14:54 -0700
  Re: software situation someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-27 04:30 +0000
    Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-27 07:41 -0700
      Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-27 16:04 -0700
      Re: software situation someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-30 23:30 +0000
        Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 11:01 -0700
          Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-31 13:54 -0700
            Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 15:06 -0700
              Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-31 16:14 -0700
                Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 16:43 -0700
                Re: software situation Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-01 06:41 +0000
                Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-01 00:49 -0700
                Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-04-01 17:39 -0700
        Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-31 14:15 -0700
          Re: software situation Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-04-01 06:45 +0000
            Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-04-01 09:11 -0700
              Re: software situation Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 09:43 -0700
              Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-04-01 10:35 -0700
    Re: software situation john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-27 08:16 -0700
      Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-27 09:01 -0700
        Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-27 17:57 +0000
          Re: software situation Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> - 2026-03-27 15:06 -0700
            Re: software situation Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-03-27 15:48 -0700
            Re: software situation Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-03-28 00:44 +0000
      Re: software situation someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-30 23:30 +0000
  Re: software situation Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-03-27 08:03 +0000
  Re: software situation someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-30 23:30 +0000

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