Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war

From	Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war
Date	2026-02-06 18:30 +1100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<10m45aj$3si94$10@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <10lvlf7$2dj60$1@dont-email.me> <10m0abv$8kal$1@solani.org> <bpd7okhe87tt642nj367jufj2lp0ef1egi@4ax.com> <10m1b42$2uqdi$3@dont-email.me> <54s9ok9h12qsa9p3b5aho31p5v9cj6ruiv@4ax.com>

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On 6/02/2026 6:36 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2026 16:50:47 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/02/2026 8:21 am, john larkin wrote:
>>> On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 21:31:59 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 04.02.26 um 15:35 schrieb Bill Sloman:
>>>>>
>>>>> Blue LED's were a Japanese invention. American tend to be unaware of this.
>>>>
>>>> Siemens Silicon Carbide
>>>>
>>>>>>> You may have heard about ASML:
>>>>>>> The Netherlands
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They bought Cymer, in San Diego, to get the EUV technology. My company
>>>>>> designed the first gen tin droplet electronics.
>>>>
>>>> ... and Carl Zeiss extended UV optics
>>>>
>>>
>>> Trumph makes the gigantic CO2 lasers that nuke the tin droplets.
>>>
>>> It's a very messy, dirty process. Tin splatters everywhere.
>>>
>>> Cymer used flowing hydrogen to capture the tin before it trashed all
>>> the optics. GigaPhoton tried to use superconductive magnets somehow,
>>> but gave up.
>>>
>>> There must be a better way to do nm lithography. Several people are
>>> trying.
>>
>> People have been working on doing lithography better since we first
>> started making integrated circuits. There's not a lot of low-hanging
>> fruit left to pluck, but we will keep trying.
> 
> Xlight among others are trying to use FELs to make EUV. It looks
> difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-electron_laser

> I can imagine one such source in the entire world, selling EUV beams
> to a bunch of nearby fabs.

Your imagination isn't backed up by much real-world information. There 
seem to be quite a few free electron lasers around the world at the 
moment. So far they are just expensive research tools, so there aren't 
all that many.

Once somebody works out how to make one that is good enough to use as a 
light source for EUV lithography, people will copy it repeatedly.

Of course, there may be other ways of doing sub-micron lithography - I 
worked on a shaped beam electron beam microfabricator for a while, until 
the project got too expensive and got cancelled. Bell labs built such a 
machine and sold five of them to European Semiconductor Structures in 
Aix-en-Provence, but they only delivered 10% of the promised writing 
rate and ESS went bust. I only go to hear about that some 15 years later 
when I ran into the then director of ESS while my wife was being 
inducted a fellow of the UK royal society, and I got to gossip with him 
at the ceremony.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney
-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-27 10:43 -0800
  Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 15:22 -0500
    Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-01-27 12:27 -0800
      Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-27 13:46 -0800
        Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 17:19 -0500
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-27 14:45 -0800
        Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-29 02:54 +1100
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-28 08:13 -0800
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 14:21 -0500
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2026-01-28 16:02 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-29 13:41 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 22:59 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2026-01-29 17:46 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Coileán Pól Nioclás de Ghlostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-29 14:41 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2026-01-29 19:03 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 15:25 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 10:15 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 04:03 -0700
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 00:12 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 13:25 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 07:03 -0700
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:35 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 00:09 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 13:43 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 02:34 +1100
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-29 13:25 +1100
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-01-29 12:18 +0100
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 05:00 -0800
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-01-29 14:09 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 08:53 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-01-29 20:25 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2026-01-29 18:18 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 16:53 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 15:49 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-01 11:58 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 09:48 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-02-02 18:29 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-02 12:33 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-03 05:50 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-03 07:56 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-04 05:44 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-04 03:24 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 01:35 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-02-04 21:31 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-04 13:21 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 16:50 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-05 11:36 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-06 18:30 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-06 03:41 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-07 01:12 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 16:46 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-05 11:37 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-06 06:18 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-02-06 09:51 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-06 12:30 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-05 09:14 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-05 04:39 -0700
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-02-05 14:30 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-02-05 08:36 -0700
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-06 02:07 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-04 15:53 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-05 01:04 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-04 15:58 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-02-03 16:23 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-03 09:03 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-02-03 17:47 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-02-03 11:18 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-02-04 01:21 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-03 18:52 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2026-02-03 13:40 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-03 23:38 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-02-03 05:41 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-03 10:46 -0800
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 03:08 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 08:56 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 15:56 +1100
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 03:04 +1100
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 08:59 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-01-29 20:50 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 19:22 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 16:00 +1100
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 15:43 -0800
        Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2026-01-28 17:42 +0100
    Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-27 13:47 -0800
      Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 17:31 -0500
        Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-27 14:42 -0800
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 17:55 -0500
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-27 15:03 -0800
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 19:04 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-01-29 12:24 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 10:43 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 16:07 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 11:45 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:51 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-29 23:03 -0700
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-01-28 00:18 +0100
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-28 11:57 +0000
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-28 08:19 -0800
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 15:18 -0500
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-28 13:12 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 16:54 -0500
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 15:13 -0500
    Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-27 15:32 -0700
      Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 17:44 -0500
        Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-27 15:55 -0700
          Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-27 19:13 -0500
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2026-01-27 19:53 -0500
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-27 20:30 -0700
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-29 01:56 +1100
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-01-29 12:29 +0100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-29 23:09 -0700
              Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 13:25 +0000
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-30 07:07 -0700
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 11:49 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 02:40 +1100
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-01-30 11:23 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-31 01:17 -0700
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-01-31 12:19 -0800
                Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-01-31 18:36 -0700
            Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 13:25 +0000
    Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2026-01-28 17:38 +0100
      Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 17:19 -0500
      Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-01-28 17:36 -0500
  Re: Raspberry Pi goes to war Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2026-01-28 06:26 +0000

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