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Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #15540
| From | Emmanuel Arias <eamanu@yaerobi.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.maint.python |
| Subject | Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy |
| Date | 2024-03-03 00:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <IdH7s-e18K-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | <Ic0Hf-cWrX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
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On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 09:05:44AM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I became more deeply involved into DPT since 2022 as a consequence of
> the suggestion for transfering several Debian Med/Science packages to
> DPMT[1][2]. I happily followed this suggestion and moved >30 packages
> from the Blends teams to DPT. I was happy with this move since it makes
> sense.
>
> Recently we received lots of testing removal warnings in those Blends
> teams due to RC bugs caused by Cython 3.0 and Python3.12 migrations. So
> I did what I usually do in those teams: I dedicated quite some time in
> team wide bug hunting. That way I squashed about 50 bugs on packages
> where I was not in Uploaders. When doing so I usually run
> routine-update on the package which basically streamlines packaging to
> latest standards including calling Janitor tools which are so far
> accepted inside DPT.
>
> I probably should have reviewed the DPT policy on Maintainership[3] more
> carefully. In other teams, it's common for the Maintainer to be set to
> the team, so I assumed it was just an oversight when I made this
> change[4] when touching the package to fix RC bug #1058177. However, I
> I was pointed immediately about the fact that I was mistaken according
> to the current DPT policy. I apologize for this. However, the wording
> of the comment on my commit was discouraging, especially considering I
> was a volunteer who had fixed a critical bug. Because of this, I
> decided to focus my efforts on fixing other critical bugs for the
> moment. If the comment had started with a 'Thanks for fixing the
> critical bug, but...' I likely would have corrected my mistake quickly.
> The lack of respect from my teammate simply made me prioritize my time
> on other issues that are more visible to our users. I wonder whether I
> should propose another change to the policy about maintaining a kind and
> polite language inside the team - but that's a different thing.
>
> While I applied the patch for another RC bug (#1063443) after >2 weeks
> which triggered a RC bug in reportbug I remembered the "keep the
> maintainer" policy. But I kept on doing Janitor like changes since
> finally the package is maintained in a team where Janitor is accepted.
> When doing so I failed the phrase "please contact the Maintainer for the
> green light." I apoligize for this again. The response was another
> volunteer-demotivating private mail (thus no quote) which also was
> lacking the "Thanks for fixing"-phrase and degrading my changes as
> "frivolous".
>
> So far what happened (seen from my possibly biased perspective).
>
> Why do I like to change the policy?
>
> The current wording provides some means to stop volunteer team members
> helping out moving forward to speed up migrations and fix Debian wide
> dependencies. It hides team maintained packages from a common BTS
> view. When pointing my browser to
> https://bugs.debian.org/team+python@tracker.debian.org
> I currently see 1339 open bugs (calculated by [UDD1]). This hides
> another 309 [UDD2] bugs (>18% of team bugs) from our sight. To work
> around this flaw I used an UDD query to find relevant Python3.12 bugs.
>
> When I think twice about the wording
> Team in Uploaders is a weak statement of collaboration.[3]
> I personally consider it a statement of *no* collaboration (which fits
> the wording of the responses I've got).
>
> How can a team member for instance find another RC bug #1009424? Just
> from reading the bug report it is pretty easy to fix but does not
> feature any response in BTS. I came across this while looking into
> Cython 3.0 bugs. The same source package (basemap) that had the open
> Cython bug (#1056789, tagged patch since 2023-12-09) is featuring RC bug
> (#1009424) that stayed unattended for 22 months? We all know volunteers
> have limited time and I do not want to blame anybody in the team to not
> care promptly about RC bugs. But what else is the sense of a packaging
> team than stepping in situations for long standing RC bugs and RC bugs
> tagged patch?
>
> This kind of situation wouldn't occur in teams where collaboration is
> strong and communication is effective. My motivation to address these
> long-ignored critical bugs diminishes when the maintainer opts for
> "weak" cooperation and lacks respectful communication with potential
> helpers. I see no difference to simply do a NMU.
>
> I've checked the current situation who is actually using the DPT team as
> Uploaders[UDD3]. 66 of the 73 maintainers have less than 5 packages
> some of these "Maintainers" are other teams and lots of the persons
> listed as Maintainer are known to be MIA. This means the packages are
> de-facto not maintained which is most probably an unwanted effect of the
> current policy. I know other maintainers from other teams to be fine
> with stronger team understanding.
>
> Since I consider the current situation as demotivating for newcomers
> as well as long standing contributors I would like to suggest to drop
> this "weak statement of collaboration" option from policy. I've attached
> an according patch to the team policy[5]. I'm fine with creating a MR
> to be discussed rather in Salsa than this mailing list - whatever seems
> worthwhile to you.
+1 for this DPT policy change.
When I started to contribute I received these kind of comments that made
me think if I could really start contributing to Debian. As time went
by, I learned to read first who is the maintainer of the package before
read the bug reported, no matter if the package is (apparently) under the
DPT umbrella.
--
cheers,
Emmanuel Arias
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ eamanu@debian.org
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: 13796755BBC72BB8ABE2AEB5 FA9DEC5DE11C63F1
⠈⠳⣄
Back to linux.debian.maint.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-27 09:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Talbert <swt@techie.net> - 2024-02-27 15:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-27 19:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 01:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 08:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 12:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 15:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 13:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Jeroen Ploemen <jcfp@debian.org> - 2024-02-29 20:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2024-03-01 08:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Jeroen Ploemen <jcfp@debian.org> - 2024-03-01 13:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <tille@debian.org> - 2024-03-02 21:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-03-02 22:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-03 07:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-03-03 18:20 +0100
+1 (Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy) Jochen Sprickerhof <jspricke@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 15:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 16:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 08:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Étienne Mollier <emollier@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 09:40 +0100
Maintaining packages with complex relationships (Was: Suggesting change in DPT policy) Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 12:00 +0100
Re: Maintaining packages with complex relationships (Was: Suggesting change in DPT policy) Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 16:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 16:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy weepingclown <weepingclown@disroot.org> - 2024-02-27 17:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 09:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Arto Jantunen <viiru@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 21:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Louis-Philippe Véronneau <pollo@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 21:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 09:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 15:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 15:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 03:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Agathe Porte <gagath@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 10:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2024-02-28 11:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-03-01 01:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2024-03-03 00:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Emmanuel Arias <eamanu@yaerobi.com> - 2024-03-03 00:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Alexandre Detiste <alexandre.detiste@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 16:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> - 2024-03-09 18:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Anton Gladky <gladk@debian.org> - 2024-03-09 18:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2024-03-09 22:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-19 08:40 +0100
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