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Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #15505
| From | Louis-Philippe Véronneau <pollo@debian.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.maint.python |
| Subject | Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy |
| Date | 2024-02-27 21:40 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <Iccp4-d3oq-19@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | <Ic0Hf-cWrX-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
On 2024-02-27 03:05, Andreas Tille wrote: > Hi, > > I became more deeply involved into DPT since 2022 as a consequence of > the suggestion for transfering several Debian Med/Science packages to > DPMT[1][2]. I happily followed this suggestion and moved >30 packages > from the Blends teams to DPT. I was happy with this move since it makes > sense. > > Recently we received lots of testing removal warnings in those Blends > teams due to RC bugs caused by Cython 3.0 and Python3.12 migrations. So > I did what I usually do in those teams: I dedicated quite some time in > team wide bug hunting. That way I squashed about 50 bugs on packages > where I was not in Uploaders. When doing so I usually run > routine-update on the package which basically streamlines packaging to > latest standards including calling Janitor tools which are so far > accepted inside DPT. > > I probably should have reviewed the DPT policy on Maintainership[3] more > carefully. In other teams, it's common for the Maintainer to be set to > the team, so I assumed it was just an oversight when I made this > change[4] when touching the package to fix RC bug #1058177. However, I > I was pointed immediately about the fact that I was mistaken according > to the current DPT policy. I apologize for this. However, the wording > of the comment on my commit was discouraging, especially considering I > was a volunteer who had fixed a critical bug. Because of this, I > decided to focus my efforts on fixing other critical bugs for the > moment. If the comment had started with a 'Thanks for fixing the > critical bug, but...' I likely would have corrected my mistake quickly. > The lack of respect from my teammate simply made me prioritize my time > on other issues that are more visible to our users. I wonder whether I > should propose another change to the policy about maintaining a kind and > polite language inside the team - but that's a different thing. > > While I applied the patch for another RC bug (#1063443) after >2 weeks > which triggered a RC bug in reportbug I remembered the "keep the > maintainer" policy. But I kept on doing Janitor like changes since > finally the package is maintained in a team where Janitor is accepted. > When doing so I failed the phrase "please contact the Maintainer for the > green light." I apoligize for this again. The response was another > volunteer-demotivating private mail (thus no quote) which also was > lacking the "Thanks for fixing"-phrase and degrading my changes as > "frivolous". > > So far what happened (seen from my possibly biased perspective). > > Why do I like to change the policy? > > The current wording provides some means to stop volunteer team members > helping out moving forward to speed up migrations and fix Debian wide > dependencies. It hides team maintained packages from a common BTS > view. When pointing my browser to > https://bugs.debian.org/team+python@tracker.debian.org > I currently see 1339 open bugs (calculated by [UDD1]). This hides > another 309 [UDD2] bugs (>18% of team bugs) from our sight. To work > around this flaw I used an UDD query to find relevant Python3.12 bugs. > > When I think twice about the wording > Team in Uploaders is a weak statement of collaboration.[3] > I personally consider it a statement of *no* collaboration (which fits > the wording of the responses I've got). > > How can a team member for instance find another RC bug #1009424? Just > from reading the bug report it is pretty easy to fix but does not > feature any response in BTS. I came across this while looking into > Cython 3.0 bugs. The same source package (basemap) that had the open > Cython bug (#1056789, tagged patch since 2023-12-09) is featuring RC bug > (#1009424) that stayed unattended for 22 months? We all know volunteers > have limited time and I do not want to blame anybody in the team to not > care promptly about RC bugs. But what else is the sense of a packaging > team than stepping in situations for long standing RC bugs and RC bugs > tagged patch? > > This kind of situation wouldn't occur in teams where collaboration is > strong and communication is effective. My motivation to address these > long-ignored critical bugs diminishes when the maintainer opts for > "weak" cooperation and lacks respectful communication with potential > helpers. I see no difference to simply do a NMU. > > I've checked the current situation who is actually using the DPT team as > Uploaders[UDD3]. 66 of the 73 maintainers have less than 5 packages > some of these "Maintainers" are other teams and lots of the persons > listed as Maintainer are known to be MIA. This means the packages are > de-facto not maintained which is most probably an unwanted effect of the > current policy. I know other maintainers from other teams to be fine > with stronger team understanding. > > Since I consider the current situation as demotivating for newcomers > as well as long standing contributors I would like to suggest to drop > this "weak statement of collaboration" option from policy. I've attached > an according patch to the team policy[5]. I'm fine with creating a MR > to be discussed rather in Salsa than this mailing list - whatever seems > worthwhile to you. I too, support this change. As Scott said, I want to reiterate that I think it's important that anyone who thinks this is a bad idea to make themselves heard. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ pollo@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄
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Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-27 09:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Talbert <swt@techie.net> - 2024-02-27 15:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-27 19:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 01:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 08:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 12:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 15:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 13:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Jeroen Ploemen <jcfp@debian.org> - 2024-02-29 20:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2024-03-01 08:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Jeroen Ploemen <jcfp@debian.org> - 2024-03-01 13:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <tille@debian.org> - 2024-03-02 21:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-03-02 22:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-02 23:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-03 07:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-03-03 18:20 +0100
+1 (Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy) Jochen Sprickerhof <jspricke@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 15:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 16:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 08:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Étienne Mollier <emollier@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 09:40 +0100
Maintaining packages with complex relationships (Was: Suggesting change in DPT policy) Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 12:00 +0100
Re: Maintaining packages with complex relationships (Was: Suggesting change in DPT policy) Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 16:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Martin <debacle@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 16:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy weepingclown <weepingclown@disroot.org> - 2024-02-27 17:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 09:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Arto Jantunen <viiru@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 21:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Louis-Philippe Véronneau <pollo@debian.org> - 2024-02-27 21:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 09:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-02-28 15:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-02-28 15:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 03:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Agathe Porte <gagath@debian.org> - 2024-02-28 10:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2024-02-28 11:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-03-01 01:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2024-03-03 00:10 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Emmanuel Arias <eamanu@yaerobi.com> - 2024-03-03 00:40 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT policy Alexandre Detiste <alexandre.detiste@gmail.com> - 2024-03-03 16:20 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> - 2024-03-09 18:00 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Anton Gladky <gladk@debian.org> - 2024-03-09 18:50 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2024-03-09 22:30 +0100
Re: Suggesting change in DPT Policy Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2024-03-19 08:40 +0100
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