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Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging

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Hi Ian (2024.05.26_01:33:09_+0000)
> I am puzzled about some of the responses there, how can anyone expect to
> randomly update packages on the system using pip and not have it go wrong
> on any distribution? This is why things like pipenv exist.

People don't understand that stuff until they dig to the details. And
even then, sometimes they forget and/or assume we have the resources to
massively revamp our stack.

There are long-standing grievances here (see tiran's gist for example).
I have very little experience with Fedora/RH, but from their grumbling,
I assume they solve some problems for developers that we don't:

1. It appears that multiple versions of cPython are trivially available.
   Each version has its own site-packages.
2. Their python packaging is more developer-centric than user-centric.
   More modules included in the install.

We're pretty constrained on 1 by the debian security team policy. But
maybe there is discussion room there for non-supported Pythons?

We have taken steps to improve 2 by adding the python3-full package.

I could see a long term strategy for having a system-python package that
provides a python3 binary used by Debian packages that need Python. And
a separate python package for developers that installs all the bells and
whistles immediately.

Achieving this would require reorganizing the way we package almost all
Python, and I don't think we have the interest and resources to do that.

If pyenv was packaged in Debian (ITP #978149) it would probably be great
for new Python developers on Debian.

Not sure what other small tactical steps we could take?

> > Perhaps someone else wants to comment on that conversation

Replied. I've engaged with these guys on this stuff before. Let's see
where it goes...

Stefano

-- 
Stefano Rivera
  http://tumbleweed.org.za/
  +1 415 683 3272

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Thread

python devs complaining about debian packaging Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-05-26 01:50 +0200
  Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Ian Norton <inorton@gmail.com> - 2024-05-26 03:40 +0200
    Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Paul Boddie <paul@boddie.org.uk> - 2024-05-26 14:10 +0200
      Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-05-26 15:30 +0200
        Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Danial Behzadi <dani.behzi@ubuntu.com> - 2024-05-26 15:30 +0200
    Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Stefano Rivera <stefanor@debian.org> - 2024-05-26 15:40 +0200
      Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging "Donald Stufft" <donald@stufft.io> - 2024-05-27 01:30 +0200
        Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2024-05-27 04:10 +0200
          Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Paul Boddie <paul@boddie.org.uk> - 2024-06-03 00:20 +0200
            Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-06-03 07:40 +0200
              Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging "Donald Stufft" <donald@stufft.io> - 2024-06-03 16:30 +0200
                Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Paul Boddie <paul@boddie.org.uk> - 2024-06-03 18:00 +0200
                Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging Salvo Tomaselli <tiposchi@tiscali.it> - 2024-06-03 21:10 +0200
  Re: python devs complaining about debian packaging weepingclown <weepingclown@disroot.org> - 2024-05-26 15:00 +0200

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