Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair

From	Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net>
Newsgroups	comp.unix.programmer
Subject	Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair
Date	2024-12-06 17:01 +0000
Message-ID	<87zfl8924i.fsf@doppelsaurus.mobileactivedefense.com> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <vinp86$avd9$1@dont-email.me> <vip46l$omqu$1@dont-email.me> <vir23n$17csf$5@dont-email.me> <virnn2$1g9ja$1@dont-email.me> <vit3dg$1quau$1@dont-email.me>

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 08:19:46 -0000 (UTC), Muttley wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2024 02:11:04 -0000 (UTC)
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wibbled:
>>>
>>>On Wed, 4 Dec 2024 08:34:30 -0000 (UTC), Muttley wrote:
>>>
>>>> Linux is far closer to the unix philosphy (ignoring systemd) ...
>>>
>>>Which “unix philosophy” would that be?
>> 
>> The one where init does a single task instead of spreading itself
>> throughout the system ...
>
> What “single task” did init do?
>
> * Mount filesystems
> * Spawn syslog, cron
> * Spawn terminal login processes (getty)
> * Respawn terminated getty processes
> * Monitor other special stuff in inittab
> * Spawn random other services, without monitoring their state
> * Act as a general catch-all for orphaned processes when they terminate
>
> This was all before systemd came on the scene.

Originally, mainly two things: Execute a script to kick off userspace
boot. Call wait in a loop in order to reap zombies.

System V init is somewhat more complicated than that. It has a concept
of numbered run levels and will run a configurable command in response
to runlevel change request. On linux, that's usually the script
/etc/init.d/rc. It also has some process monitoring capabilities: It can
start programs depending on the current runlevel and restart them when
they terminate. This is typically used to run getty processes for real
or virtual terminals and serial lines connected to modems.

Minus some handling of special situations (power failure, ctrl-alt-del
on PCs), that's it. Anything beyond that is done by the rc script.

One could argue that this is already a case of creature feep as process
monitoring and restarting of terminated processes and many other
process invocation management tasks can as well be provided
by dedicated programs. There's no reason to hack all of this (or rather,
some random subset of what could be provided here) into a single
codebase save developer inertia: It's less work to add code to a file
that's already compiled by some build system or to add a new file to a
code base which already has a build system than to create lots of
different, specialized tools.

Thread

Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-11-16 11:26 +0000
  Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-11-16 20:51 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-17 08:41 +0000
      Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Wolfgang Agnes <wagnes@example.com> - 2024-11-17 11:38 -0300
      Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-11-17 18:25 +0000
        Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-17 18:41 +0000
  Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-11-17 17:48 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-17 18:39 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-11-18 07:54 +0000
      Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-11-18 14:02 +0000
      Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-11-18 20:43 +0000
        Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-11-19 10:07 +0000
  Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou@hotmail.com> - 2024-11-18 03:38 +0100
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-18 08:26 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-18 09:51 +0000
      Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastartdlyHQ.org - 2024-11-18 09:57 +0000
  Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) - 2024-12-03 05:29 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-03 08:20 +0000
      Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:21 +0000
        Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-04 08:34 +0000
          Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 02:11 +0000
            Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-05 06:44 +0000
              Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-12-05 13:15 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-05 13:57 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-05 15:06 +0000
            Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Nicolas George <nicolas$george@salle-s.org> - 2024-12-05 08:01 +0000
            Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-05 08:19 +0000
              Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:45 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-05 21:06 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-06 10:28 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-06 20:00 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-06 12:37 -0800
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-06 22:15 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-07 10:04 +0000
                Windows-think and systemd (Was: Something completely unrelated to what we're yapping about now) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-07 15:00 +0000
                Re: Windows-think and systemd (Was: Something completely unrelated to what we're yapping about now) Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-07 16:05 +0000
                Re: Windows-think and systemd (Was: Something completely unrelated to what we're yapping about now) rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) - 2024-12-14 09:09 +0000
                AIX (was Re: Windows-think and systemd) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2024-12-14 12:24 +0100
                Re: Windows-think and systemd (Was: Something completely unrelated to what we're yapping about now) Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2024-12-08 03:51 +0000
                Re: Windows-think and systemd (Was: Something completely unrelated to what we're yapping about now) Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-09 20:38 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-09 16:24 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) - 2024-12-14 09:06 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-06 17:01 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-09 20:28 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-10 01:27 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-10 21:01 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 08:50 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-10 09:23 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-10 12:26 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-10 20:55 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-10 22:02 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-11 08:33 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-11 22:26 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-11 22:40 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Nicolas George <nicolas$george@salle-s.org> - 2024-12-11 23:34 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Alexis <flexibeast@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 19:15 +1100
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Nicolas George <nicolas$george@salle-s.org> - 2024-12-12 11:46 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-12 08:27 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-12 09:38 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-12 22:24 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-13 20:07 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-13 22:05 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-14 15:20 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-14 22:26 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-16 23:03 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 02:39 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-18 21:19 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-18 22:16 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-18 22:25 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-12 08:39 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-12 22:31 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-13 10:38 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 07:42 -0800
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-14 01:35 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-14 20:16 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-15 12:43 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-15 21:25 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-16 08:16 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-16 19:51 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-17 08:34 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 19:44 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-17 17:27 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 07:55 -0800
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-16 20:15 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 12:44 -0800
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-16 23:07 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 02:37 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@DastardlyHQ.org - 2024-12-17 08:35 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 19:45 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-17 19:48 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-17 20:45 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2024-12-17 22:00 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-17 20:54 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-17 17:28 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-14 10:05 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2024-12-13 11:42 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2024-12-13 20:15 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) - 2024-12-14 08:52 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-14 10:09 +0000
                Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-14 22:28 +0000
              Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:46 +0000
        Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) - 2024-12-14 08:48 +0000
          Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2024-12-14 10:06 +0000
          macOS and UNIX conformance (was: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2024-12-16 14:05 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 08:38 +0000
    Re: Faking a TTY on a pipe/socketpair scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-12-03 14:22 +0000

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