Re: Apple Investors Beware?

From	Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system
Subject	Re: Apple Investors Beware?
Date	2017-05-23 16:11 -0700
Organization	Datemas.de http://www.news.datemas.de
Message-ID	<og2fid$d9s$1@news.datemas.de> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <ofl3qs$9lo$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ofl9t1$hlj$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ofli88$rc5$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ofnq45$qq2$1@news.datemas.de> <ofv8j5$oj4$1@news.albasani.net>

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On 2017-05-22 10:53 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
> On 5/19/17 4:03 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2017-05-18 6:37 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> On 2017-05-18 23:14:44 +0000, Alan Baker said:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-05-18 2:31 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> A.  People don't want to share cars with every other idiot who
>>>>>>> leaves
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> in a mess and vomit covered byt drunken fools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For many people, the idea of a "taxi" simply is not workable, which
>>>>>> nospam seems unable or unwilling to acknowledge.
>>>>>
>>>>> A taxi works if you're simply going from A to B ... and have more
>>>>> money
>>>>> than sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bus or train works if you're simply going from A to B ... and don't
>>>>> mind it taking 20 times longer and having to walk 50 miles to /
>>>>> from the
>>>>> bus stop or train station.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both may work if you live in a well-organised, densely populated city.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reality is that for most people none of these criteria fit. Most
>>>>> people go from A to B, via C, D, E, and F. They don't want to walk 50
>>>>> miles and wait two hours. They don't live in densely populated cities
>>>>> with a bus / train every 20 seconds, and they don't live in a city
>>>>> that
>>>>> is well-organised thanks to brainless bureaucrats in local
>>>>> government /
>>>>> city council wasting piles of tax-payer money on pointless crap.
>>>>>
>>>>> These "call up" autonomous cars are simply a ridiculous idea that will
>>>>> never actually work.
>>>>
>>>> Why not?
>>>>
>>>> The most expensive part of a taxi BY FAR is the driver.
>>>>
>>>> Just look at the success of things like Car2Go:
>>>>
>>>> Car2Go costs $0.32 per minute, so the 20 minute drive to YVR would
>>>> cost me about $6. A taxi these days is approaching $40.
>>>>
>>>> So what is a call-up driverless car other than a Car2Go you don't have
>>>> to walk a few blocks to rent, and for which you don't need a license.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> B.  People want the convenience of having their own car and not
>>>>>>> waiting for
>>>>>>> some silly "service" to decided to turn up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are those that say the automobile is what led to the decline of
>>>>>> public transportation in the United States.
>>>>>
>>>>> In some ways, yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the car also liberated the "common folk", allowing them to more
>>>>> easily go on holiday, spend their leisure time elsewhere, live in the
>>>>> suburbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's that last one that really kicked public transport since the
>>>>> suburbs
>>>>> have a lower population density, making public transport largely
>>>>> unfeasible and unworkable.
>>>>
>>>> I'm all for the private car, but driverless car services are going to
>>>> be huge thing.
>>>
>>> Only, perhaps, in the middle of large cities with a population density
>>> that can make it worthwhile (at the expense of the taxi driver jobs).
>>> Elsewhere they simply won't be economical to run and won't work ... just
>>> like public transport now.
>>
>> So... ...just like taxi cabs are today...
>>
>> ...only less expensive.
>>
>> :-)
>
> Will less expensive possibly lead to more people going to congested
> areas?  I would suspect this.

People will still go to where people want to go.

>
>>>
>>> And that's even ignoring that most roads around the world aren't defined
>>> well enough for autonomous cars to understand, aren't mapped well enough
>>> for GPS systems to utilise, etc.
>>
>> I think you're rather underestimating:
>>
>> 1. How well roads are being defined by companies like Google and Apple.
>
> But, I suspect those companies have a long view profit motive in mind.
> While some roads may be defined in the database, will the cars be able
> to access the database when needed?

That's not how it's going to work. There's no need for a car to have 
access to the database continuously in order to do any of the tasks 
associated with self-driving.

>
>> 2. How autonomous cars will operate with synthetic vision systems.
>
> This success will depend on the quality and capability of the vision
> system.

Yup.

>
>> Will it start out with where the roads are best defined? Yes.
>>
>> As it succeeds where that is true, will more roads get defined well
>> enough to expand the system? You bet.
>
> And I'll bet, it will expand to a point to where whomever owns the
> vehicles find it's a money-losing proposition, and drop those areas.

Nope. The reasons taxis don't do well in rural areas is that there is 
the large expense of the driver.

>
>>>
>>> It also ignores the fact that if anyone and everyone can then use a car,
>>> the congestion is going to get WORSE, not better. You'll have all the
>>> people who currently can't use a car able to use one (no license, too
>>> disabled, too young, too old, even being used to pets being sent to the
>>> vet / groomer / dog walker or parcels being delivered), and you'll still
>>> mostly have single-occupant vehicles
>>
>> No. Because autonomous cars will be able to coordinate with each other
>> better and will need less space on the road between each of them for the
>> same speed of travel.
>
> I have to agree with YourName, here.  Once people have the freedom to go
> where they want, when they want, with no conflicts of travel, more
> vehicles will be needed.  I suspect this will be the most noticeable
> during the "commute" time period.  During idle times in the day, and
> overnight, where the unneeded vehicles go?

But they won't all need vehicles at the same time. One vehicle will 
serve the needs of a bunch of people.

>
> Car pools will likely disappear.  (Why would you car pool with a bunch
> of people you don't really like when you can go in your own car?)
> Instead of a soccer mom gathering up the team in one car, everyone may
> just go in their own?

You might do so if it was cheaper to car pool.

>
> Do any of the scenarios you mention include RV's?
>
>>>
>>> Just like the electric car, the autonomous car simply isn't the
>>> be-all-and-end-all "solution" many numbnuts have blinkered themselves
>>> into believe it is. Real cars and privately owned cars will still be
>>> around for a LONG time yet.
>>
>> I never said it's anything like that, so... ...what?
>
> "Dreamers" are needed for society to move forward.  But their dreams
> always seem to focus on the best of the idea, rarely if ever on the
> negative of the idea.

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Re: Apple Investors Beware? Electric Comet <electric-comet@mail.invalid> - 2017-05-09 10:21 -0700
  Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-09 14:33 -0400
    Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-09 14:36 -0400
      Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-09 17:28 -0400
        Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-09 18:11 -0400
      Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-10 19:30 -0600
        Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 23:00 -0400
          Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-13 14:30 -0600
            Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-13 16:39 -0400
              Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-13 17:09 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2017-05-14 11:40 +1200
              Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-14 11:11 +1200
            Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-13 18:02 -0400
              Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-13 20:54 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-14 15:40 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-13 21:48 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-14 18:13 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-14 16:41 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-15 14:19 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-14 23:50 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-15 19:26 +1200
              Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-17 08:26 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-17 10:31 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-17 10:46 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-17 12:50 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 03:16 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 10:48 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 20:37 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-18 09:20 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-17 17:25 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 03:09 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 10:48 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-18 21:44 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 18:00 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-19 13:48 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 20:46 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-20 18:01 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-20 21:31 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 19:38 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-23 22:17 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 21:55 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-24 00:26 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 19:10 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 23:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-24 18:36 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 19:15 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-26 01:12 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-19 09:40 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 18:00 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 21:12 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-19 16:49 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-22 11:07 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 09:11 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 17:30 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 19:48 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 23:08 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 20:12 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 18:41 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 19:28 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-23 09:25 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 19:29 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 19:19 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-23 22:17 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-26 02:25 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-26 13:37 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 19:34 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 23:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-28 04:55 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 23:16 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 19:06 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-24 13:31 +1200
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                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-24 15:57 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 19:45 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 23:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-28 05:14 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 23:19 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-29 18:48 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-30 18:42 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 23:18 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 10:53 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-30 18:43 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 20:53 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-31 13:17 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-23 22:17 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-26 02:33 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-26 13:37 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-27 15:44 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-27 10:27 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-26 19:08 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-27 15:59 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-28 10:58 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-27 23:09 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-28 12:58 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 21:08 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-29 03:26 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 10:53 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-29 08:51 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 12:19 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-30 18:52 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-30 09:05 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-28 04:47 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-28 19:33 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-28 09:32 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-28 18:06 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-29 03:30 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-29 08:48 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-29 18:47 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-30 19:28 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-30 18:39 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-31 06:28 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-31 12:14 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 19:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 15:08 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-20 11:13 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 16:26 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 19:28 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-22 06:52 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 03:30 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 10:48 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 21:19 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 19:48 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-23 22:17 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 19:57 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 23:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 15:11 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-20 11:16 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 16:22 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-19 09:31 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-18 16:14 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-19 13:37 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-18 21:43 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-22 11:37 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 14:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-22 15:09 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 15:13 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 14:23 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 12:58 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 21:25 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 19:50 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-22 21:00 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 21:25 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 19:52 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 18:49 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-23 16:13 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2017-05-23 19:58 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-23 09:30 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 09:27 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-23 20:03 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-23 19:19 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-26 01:14 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 20:06 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 23:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 09:19 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-26 02:54 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-26 13:37 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-26 19:34 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-26 23:52 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-29 03:39 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 15:03 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-20 11:10 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 16:25 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-20 14:31 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-19 19:41 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-20 15:45 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 22:45 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-27 20:23 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-27 23:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-29 03:46 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 10:53 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-29 08:50 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-29 16:11 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-29 09:18 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 12:28 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 13:33 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 13:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-29 18:59 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 16:07 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 17:52 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 19:02 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 19:23 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-29 23:35 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 22:59 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 23:09 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-30 03:20 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-30 00:55 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-30 11:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 12:05 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-30 15:04 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-30 12:12 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-30 19:16 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 15:22 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-30 15:45 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-30 12:50 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 15:58 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-30 20:12 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-30 16:35 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-30 21:07 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-30 19:06 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-30 16:24 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 19:35 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-30 21:45 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-30 19:36 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 22:48 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-31 02:52 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 23:02 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-31 00:53 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-31 00:59 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-31 07:03 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-31 00:05 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-30 17:09 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-31 00:19 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2017-05-30 17:31 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-31 00:37 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 20:38 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-31 00:40 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-30 20:53 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-06-03 05:35 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-30 16:34 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2017-05-29 23:29 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-30 00:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-29 18:59 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 15:26 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 16:15 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 17:52 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-29 18:17 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 18:20 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-30 00:49 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 22:07 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-28 17:47 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-19 19:28 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-22 11:53 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-23 16:11 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 10:38 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-28 13:00 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-29 03:47 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-22 11:26 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 13:29 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 10:45 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-28 13:00 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-29 09:17 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-28 18:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 09:14 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 14:25 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 12:55 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 21:25 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-22 19:50 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-23 18:45 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-23 10:35 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 21:14 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-23 11:44 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-23 09:35 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 21:21 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-29 16:19 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 00:20 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-23 21:20 +0000
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 21:17 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 00:10 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-23 11:11 -0700
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 21:28 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-29 16:24 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-30 13:17 +1200
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-29 22:07 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-22 17:30 -0400
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-28 10:46 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Ken Springer <wordworks@greeleynet.com> - 2017-05-18 21:49 -0600
                Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-19 17:16 +1200
    Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-09 14:21 -0700
      Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-10 09:27 +1200
      Re: Apple Investors Beware? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2017-05-09 17:48 -0400
        Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-09 18:11 -0400
        Re: Apple Investors Beware? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2017-05-10 09:50 -0700
          Re: Apple Investors Beware? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2017-05-11 12:49 +1200
            Re: Apple Investors Beware? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-11 08:55 -0400
      Re: Apple Investors Beware? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2017-05-09 22:42 +0000

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