Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple

From	Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system, comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject	Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple
Date	2013-02-01 08:43 -0800
Organization	lined up neatly
Message-ID	<kegrb2$9c4$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <510b3169$0$52036$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> <michelle-50DE7A.20490031012013@news.eternal-september.org> <010220130001361593%star@sky.net> <510b4e47$0$26798$c3e8da3$33881b6a@news.astraweb.com> <slrnkgmmsj.128a.g.kreme@ananke.local>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 2013-02-01 06:06:58 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <510b4e47$0$26798$c3e8da3$33881b6a@news.astraweb.com>
>   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> On 13-02-01 00:01, Davoud wrote:
> 
>>> Mr. Mezei tends to be absolutist. If a single Apple application lacks
>>> "Save as" then that's it--no application from any publisher has "Save
>>> as." He probably thinks they've got five feet of snow in Key West just
>>> now.
> 
> 
>> Consider that IOS is a UI without a file system. An app has its own
>> hidden documents and you lose the concept of "save" because of autosave
>> and you can't save a spreadsheet along with keynote and Pages documenst
>> in the same folder because there are no folders in IOS.
> 
> And that makes sense in iOS.

Arg.  Don't make me agree with JF.  It makes sense only in the context of
a system that's meant for small, solitary tasks.  In iOS, it's more a
matter of extra security than intention.  Nobody seriously wants their
documents silo'd by application because nobody thinks "I want to work on
a Numbers".  They think "I want to work on my task and right now I need
a spreadsheet".

Thankfully, however, JF is entirely wrong in that nothing in OS X forces
or even encourages people strongly to do the iOS-ish thing with files.

The closest OS X comes to that is the default behavior of iCloud Documents,
which is entirely optional and can easily be turned off (or never turned on).

Meanwhile, we have *excellent* alternatives which give us cloud functionality
without the application silos - Dropbox, Wuala, Box.net, Sugarsync and others.

> 
>> Apple tried to *start* to move OS-X that way with Lion (autosave,
>> auto-open,  no save as, versions and icloud)
> 
> Bullshit, these have nothing to do with 'hiding' documents, they have 
> to do with making life easier on users. And they do.

Agreed - nothing to do with hiding documents.  However, I do strongly 
believe that AutoSave and Versions are both (a) a *great* idea; and (b) 
a flawed implementation.  Apple's tried to fix a flaw or two in the 
move from Lion to ML, but they've still got a ways to go.
> 
> I use Numbers for exactly one purpose, tracking Apple App Store
> purchases for the kids. Other people use it for other things, but that's
> all I use it for. When I open Numbers, my iOS spreadsheet is open. I
> enter the app purchased and put the price in the appropriate person's
> column and I quit Numbers.

I use it for *hundreds* of spreadsheets.  Auto-re-open is an abominably 
bad idea for me.  Thankfully, I am able to turn it off.

I almost like Auto-Save, however, I am well aware that Versions is 
*not* a revision control system.  At best, it's a way to revert 
*sometimes* because the version repository is not tied to the file, nor 
is it able to be synced between computers -- and it gets lost if you 
move the file from one drive to another even on the same system.  So 
before I do any any major work on a file, I have to duplicate it 
(either in the app or in the Finder) and rename the copy (usually with 
a new date in the filename).

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[OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-30 01:16 -0700
  Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-01-30 07:40 -0500
    Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-01-30 07:19 -0800
  Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2013-01-30 13:54 +0000
  Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-30 09:32 -0600
    Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-30 10:53 -0700
      Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-30 14:59 -0500
        Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-30 13:14 -0700
          Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-30 15:48 -0500
            Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-01-30 17:47 -0500
              Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-30 18:04 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-01-30 16:49 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-01-30 22:03 -0500
              Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-30 16:12 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-30 18:27 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-30 16:38 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-01-30 18:28 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-01-30 22:05 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-01-31 10:39 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2013.subsume.com> - 2013-01-31 15:00 -0600
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-01-31 13:33 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-01-31 18:13 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-31 18:35 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-31 21:00 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-31 19:10 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-31 22:07 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-31 20:49 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-02-01 00:01 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-02-01 00:10 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-01 06:06 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-02-01 01:28 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-01 16:44 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-02-01 08:45 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-02-01 08:43 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-01 17:38 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-02-01 23:18 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2013-02-03 11:49 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-03 23:20 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-01-31 20:57 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-02-03 00:36 +1300
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-01 06:01 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-01-31 21:47 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-31 20:57 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-01 11:00 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-01 16:50 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-01 18:55 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-01 22:05 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 00:15 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-02 18:29 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 19:42 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-02 15:49 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 19:38 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-01 23:04 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 00:13 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-02 11:25 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 11:19 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-02 17:07 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 19:36 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-02-03 22:34 +1300
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-03 23:16 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-04 21:48 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-04 23:38 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-02-05 22:33 +1300
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-02-05 05:35 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-02-02 07:20 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-01 12:03 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Bread <BreadWithSpam@Fractious.net> - 2013-02-01 12:04 -0800
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-01 21:29 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-02-01 23:28 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 00:04 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-02 18:29 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2013-02-03 10:00 +1300
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-02 19:41 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2013.subsume.com> - 2013-02-02 11:01 -0600
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-02 18:29 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2013.subsume.com> - 2013-02-03 10:23 -0600
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-03 22:17 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2013.subsume.com> - 2013-02-04 10:29 -0600
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-04 22:55 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-04 23:32 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-06 01:34 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-06 06:10 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-06 20:12 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-07 05:15 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-07 19:25 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-07 19:23 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-08 23:35 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-03 23:24 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-04 14:25 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple bj <address_is@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 13:58 -0600
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-04 23:33 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Invid Fan <invid@loclanet.com> - 2013-02-05 04:54 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-03 23:21 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-02-02 18:17 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-03 11:29 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-02-01 23:22 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-02-02 18:29 +0000
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-01-31 23:45 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple AV3 <arviso@earthlink.net> - 2013-02-01 11:44 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-02-01 12:57 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-02-01 14:01 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2013-02-03 17:30 +0100
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Doc O'Leary <droleary.usenet@1q2013.subsume.com> - 2013-02-01 11:23 -0600
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-02-03 15:37 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-02-03 13:52 -0700
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-02-01 05:59 +0000
            Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-01-30 16:00 -0700
              Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-30 18:10 -0500
                Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-01-30 16:32 -0800
            Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 10:18 -0600
        Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-01-30 14:43 -0800
        Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-30 18:40 -0500
          Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-30 18:44 -0500
            Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-01-30 16:02 -0800
          Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 10:23 -0600
        Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> - 2013-01-31 14:24 +0000
          Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-02-03 15:58 -0500
        Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-31 10:16 -0600
          Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2013-01-31 18:41 -0500
  Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2013-01-30 19:19 -0500
  Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-01-30 22:00 -0500
    Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-01-30 22:41 -0500

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