Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.glorb.com!news-out.readnews.com!transit3.readnews.com!panix!not-for-mail From: Bread Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.system,comp.mobile.ipad,misc.phone.mobile.iphone Subject: Re: [OT, sorta] How Tim Cook Should Really Be Running Apple Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 08:43:15 -0800 Organization: lined up neatly Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <51098720$0$52383$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com> <_KKdnU9oCePTDZfMnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@earthlink.com> <510b21bb$0$52155$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> <510b3169$0$52036$c3e8da3$5d8fb80f@news.astraweb.com> <010220130001361593%star@sky.net> <510b4e47$0$26798$c3e8da3$33881b6a@news.astraweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1359736995 9604 127.0.0.1 (1 Feb 2013 16:43:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 16:43:15 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: csiph.com comp.sys.mac.system:39255 comp.mobile.ipad:20966 On 2013-02-01 06:06:58 +0000, Lewis said: > In message <510b4e47$0$26798$c3e8da3$33881b6a@news.astraweb.com> > JF Mezei wrote: >> On 13-02-01 00:01, Davoud wrote: > >>> Mr. Mezei tends to be absolutist. If a single Apple application lacks >>> "Save as" then that's it--no application from any publisher has "Save >>> as." He probably thinks they've got five feet of snow in Key West just >>> now. > > >> Consider that IOS is a UI without a file system. An app has its own >> hidden documents and you lose the concept of "save" because of autosave >> and you can't save a spreadsheet along with keynote and Pages documenst >> in the same folder because there are no folders in IOS. > > And that makes sense in iOS. Arg. Don't make me agree with JF. It makes sense only in the context of a system that's meant for small, solitary tasks. In iOS, it's more a matter of extra security than intention. Nobody seriously wants their documents silo'd by application because nobody thinks "I want to work on a Numbers". They think "I want to work on my task and right now I need a spreadsheet". Thankfully, however, JF is entirely wrong in that nothing in OS X forces or even encourages people strongly to do the iOS-ish thing with files. The closest OS X comes to that is the default behavior of iCloud Documents, which is entirely optional and can easily be turned off (or never turned on). Meanwhile, we have *excellent* alternatives which give us cloud functionality without the application silos - Dropbox, Wuala, Box.net, Sugarsync and others. > >> Apple tried to *start* to move OS-X that way with Lion (autosave, >> auto-open, no save as, versions and icloud) > > Bullshit, these have nothing to do with 'hiding' documents, they have > to do with making life easier on users. And they do. Agreed - nothing to do with hiding documents. However, I do strongly believe that AutoSave and Versions are both (a) a *great* idea; and (b) a flawed implementation. Apple's tried to fix a flaw or two in the move from Lion to ML, but they've still got a ways to go. > > I use Numbers for exactly one purpose, tracking Apple App Store > purchases for the kids. Other people use it for other things, but that's > all I use it for. When I open Numbers, my iOS spreadsheet is open. I > enter the app purchased and put the price in the appropriate person's > column and I quit Numbers. I use it for *hundreds* of spreadsheets. Auto-re-open is an abominably bad idea for me. Thankfully, I am able to turn it off. I almost like Auto-Save, however, I am well aware that Versions is *not* a revision control system. At best, it's a way to revert *sometimes* because the version repository is not tied to the file, nor is it able to be synced between computers -- and it gets lost if you move the file from one drive to another even on the same system. So before I do any any major work on a file, I have to duplicate it (either in the app or in the Finder) and rename the copy (usually with a new date in the filename).