Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider

From	J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system
Subject	Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider
Date	2011-04-17 07:46 -0400
Organization	none at all
Message-ID	<ioejuu01f92@news1.newsguy.com> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <140420111515392298%nospam@nospam.invalid> <io87b801v4h@news6.newsguy.com> <140420112213095305%nospam@nospam.invalid> <io9g7d024q4@news5.newsguy.com> <150420111714219833%nospam@nospam.invalid>

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On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 20:14:21 -0400, nospam wrote
(in article <150420111714219833%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article <io9g7d024q4@news5.newsguy.com>, J.J. O'Shea
> <try.not.to@but.see.sig> wrote:
> 
>>>>> then don't buy it. office 2008 is intel native and will work on lion.
>>>>> no need to buy anything.
>>>> 
>>>> And parts of it _still_ use PPC-only code. Not big parts, not important 
>>>> parts, but parts still do...
>>> 
>>> if they're not important, then it doesn't matter that much, does it?
>> 
>> it does when they won't run and are therefore preventing you from 
>> completing 
>> a task. There are parts of Office which I use perhaps once in six months... 
>> and which are PPC-only in Office 2008. That means that once in six months 
>> there will be something which I cannot do in Lion.
> 
> something that is done every six months is incredibly weak
> justification to maintain compatibility with powerpc. 

If it's something which when done will earn the company $100,000 then it's 
pretty strong justification to me.

> 
> it's actually strong support to drop rosetta entirely. something done
> every six months is obviously not important.

Unless you need to do it just twice a year... but when you do need to do it, 
you need to do it _correctly_.

> 
>>>> and the parts that are Intel-capable aren't as 
>>>> compatible with Windows Office as Office 2004 is. Removing Office 2004
>>>> will cripple Mac-Windows round trips for Office documents. A _lot_ of our 
>>>> clients use Office 2003 and earlier. They are not about to upgrade. We 
>>>> must
>>>> support them or lose their business.
>>> 
>>> so the problem is that you have clients who won't upgrade *eight* year
>>> old software.
>>> 
>>> they're the ones holding you back, not apple.
>> 
>> Some of them are still using Office 97. 
> 
> even worse.

True, though.

> 
>> You appear to totally lack 
>> appreciation for the "It's not broken, don't fix it" mentality in business.
> 
> i'm well aware of it, and that it's often penny wise and dollar
> foolish, especially when their competitors are using more modern and
> more capable hardware and software.

You seem to have missed the 'if it's not broke, don't fix it' part. if their 
competitors are beating them, then it's broke and needs to be fixed. If their 
competitors are NOT beating them, then it's not broke.

> 
> you lack appreciation that the number of users who still use office 97
> or whatever else are a tiny minority and apple has decided not to
> bother supporting them anymore. it's simply not worth it. it costs more
> to support them than the additional revenue they'll bring.
> 
> as i said before, it sucks if you're in that group, but that has to
> happen if apple wants to move forward.

You're writing off a _lot_ of customers.

> 
>> I have a client who used an IBM PC-AT for 15 years, until the video card 
>> died 
>> and he couldn't find an ISA video card anymore. _Then_ he bought a new 
>> machine... which he's used ever since. It works. It does what he wants. He 
>> sees no point in spending money to replace something which works. New 
>> shiney 
>> does not appeal. Cash still in his wallet does. His business is worth over 
>> $70,000 a year to the company. We should spend money on new shiney which 
>> doesn't work with his stuff, and not only drop additional cash but lose his 
>> business? What color is the sky on your planet?
> 
> nobody is suggesting replacing what works.

You're doing exactly that.

> 
> it's replacing what *doesn't* work. office 2004 will cease to work in
> lion. that means it needs to be replaced. you can delay that while the
> hardware you currently own still functions, but at some point, you'll
> have to buy new hardware or need to update existing hardware to lion
> (or later) in order to run a particular application.

Office 2004 will cease to work _by Apple's fiat_, not because of any inherent 
problems.

> 
>>> i know that i wouldn't do business with a company using 7-8 year old
>>> software. 
>> 
>> Then you wouldn't be doing business with, say, JP Morgan Chase. which uses 
>> WinXP and WinServer2003 and Office 2003. They're upgrading, but it will be 
>> a 
>> while before they're done. Thanks, but we'll keep doing business with 
>> them...
> 
> you initially said pre-press and photoshop.

That's correct.

> i don't hire jp morgan
> chase to do graphic design and pre-press.

They're a client. We must talk to their stuff to work for them. They use 
Office 2003, WinXP, and Server 2003. This means that we must support those 
items. Office 2004 works a lot better with Office 2003 than Office 2008 does. 
Going to Lion will cause us to have _significant_ problems with a _major_ 
client, as in if we lose that business we have to lay employees off. And, as 
_they_ are the client, _we can't tell them to upgrade to make our lives 
easier_. This means that we _cannot_ upgrade to Lion. Period.

> if a graphic artist showed up
> with a powerbook g4 and photoshop cs3 and had a portfolio printed on a
> 10 year old printer, i'd show them the door.

A-ha. Your choice, of course. I prefer to look at the results than to judge 
by the use of new shiney or not.

> 
> however, if i am going to use jp morgan chase for anything financial, i
> expect that they've updated their security since 2003. otherwise, my
> money is at risk.

You might want to look at some other banks. You'll find that most of the big 
ones also use XP, Office 2003, and Server 2003.

> 
>>>> Do you _really_ think that Apple writes the drivers for all the various 
>>>> Epson, HP, Canon, Brother, etc. devices that work with OS X? I've got a 
>>>> news flash for you if that's the case: Apple is the publisher, not the
>>>> producer, of those drivers.
>>> 
>>> i never said apple wrote them.
>> 
>> Then, as they're Epson's or HP's drivers, and Epson and HP are shipping 
>> PPC-only drivers, you must understand that the drivers in question are 
>> PPC-only and therefore require Rosetta. Glad that that's cleared up.
> 
> actually it's gutenprint or cups, but it makes no difference who wrote
> the driver. rosetta is *not* used. period.

If they're PPC-based drivers, Rosetta _is_ used. Period.

But you'll find out for yourself soon enough.

> 
>>> therefore, the printer will work just fine in lion.
>> 
>> It won't. Not unless Epson gives Apple an Intel driver between now and when 
>> Lion ships, 'cause the drivers in question are PPC-only. It's fairly easy 
>> to 
>> verify this, too.
> 
> yes it is very easy to verify, and i have done so. 

No, you haven't.

> 
> it's *not* powerpc. there is no rosetta in the picture. period. it's
> fully intel native and that means it will work in lion.

No, it's not.


-- 
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.

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OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 07:25 -0400
  Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-13 07:55 -0500
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-13 15:56 -0400
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 16:49 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-13 22:10 +0100
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 17:41 -0400
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-13 22:43 +0100
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 17:47 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-13 17:30 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 17:46 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 10:08 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 13:03 -0700
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 14:38 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 15:15 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-15 12:05 +1200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:48 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 21:51 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 08:15 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-16 00:23 +1200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 21:34 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 22:13 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-15 09:12 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-15 17:14 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 19:20 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-16 23:40 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:46 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-17 13:40 +0100
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-17 14:21 +0100
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 06:49 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:18 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 18:41 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:37 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2011-04-15 23:55 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:48 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 09:35 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:20 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 12:39 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:20 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-18 13:18 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-19 09:00 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-19 09:02 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-22 23:23 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 17:52 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-16 23:38 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:49 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 09:59 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:28 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 10:06 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 16:56 +0000
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 09:56 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-18 07:58 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-18 12:32 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:35 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-19 12:41 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-19 08:00 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-19 09:04 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2011-04-18 10:25 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-20 09:31 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider glawrie <gavin.lawrie@2gc.co.uk> - 2011-04-15 21:44 +0100
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:50 -0400
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:38 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 21:26 -0700
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-18 17:13 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-18 19:43 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-19 09:06 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-20 11:58 +0000
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-20 09:10 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-20 09:17 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:25 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:25 -0400
            OS X and the iToy ecosystem AES <siegman@stanford.edu> - 2011-04-15 07:03 -0700
              Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 09:58 -0500
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:37 -0400
              Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 08:12 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem AES <siegman@stanford.edu> - 2011-04-15 11:10 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:38 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 17:54 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 14:56 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 19:27 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 22:32 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-16 10:42 -0500
              Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2011-04-15 11:37 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 12:51 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 17:10 +0200
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2011-04-17 11:29 -0500
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem sbt <dogbreath@chaseabone.com.invalid> - 2011-04-17 11:16 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 11:48 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 10:22 +0200
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org> - 2011-04-18 07:44 -0500
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-18 08:47 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Kiraly <ggrandish@gmail.com> - 2011-04-18 15:16 -0700
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-18 19:48 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2011-04-19 02:58 +0000
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-18 07:45 -0500
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-18 10:13 -0400
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-18 14:49 -0500
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2011-04-18 22:53 +0000
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 10:20 +0200
                Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 12:37 -0400
              Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2011-04-15 17:11 -0500
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 12:22 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:58 +0200
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider BreadWithSpam@fractious.net - 2011-04-13 21:04 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:49 +0200
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:29 -0400
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 10:52 +0000
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) - 2011-04-14 20:17 +0100
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:31 -0500
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-14 21:43 -0400
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2011-04-18 12:37 -0400
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-13 20:04 +0000
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:29 -0500
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-16 04:52 +0000
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-16 01:08 -0400
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:42 +0200
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-16 10:45 -0500
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-20 01:41 +0000
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-20 07:54 -0500
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:39 +0200
  Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-13 15:45 -0400
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 16:22 -0400
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider AES <siegman@stanford.edu> - 2011-04-13 15:08 -0700
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 18:20 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 07:54 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 10:52 +0000
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-16 04:45 +0000
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-13 21:02 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 02:13 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:37 -0500
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:14 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 22:04 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 04:12 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 06:47 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2011-04-16 01:23 +0000
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:34 -0500
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-04-15 11:49 +0100
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:26 +0200
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> - 2011-04-15 12:25 +0000
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 08:35 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 12:12 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:11 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 19:08 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:06 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 14:53 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 19:25 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:08 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 22:29 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:24 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 19:13 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 21:09 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:31 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:32 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:18 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-15 23:33 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-16 08:39 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-16 11:20 +0000
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 08:43 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-15 18:18 +0100
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2011-04-16 01:36 +0000
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-16 17:04 +0100
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:13 +0200
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2011-04-16 01:17 +0000
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:10 +0200
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 07:16 -0700
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:04 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:03 +0200
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:03 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 07:43 -0400
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:52 +0200
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 16:56 +0000
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-19 12:42 +0200
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 10:52 +0000
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:35 -0500
  Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-13 21:35 -0400
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-13 22:04 -0400
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-13 23:01 -0400
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 02:41 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-15 23:40 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-16 00:59 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-15 23:42 -0400
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:45 +0200
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:43 +0200
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Sander Tekelenburg <user@domain.invalid> - 2011-04-14 05:23 +0200
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:37 +0200
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 12:20 -0400
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 20:24 -0700
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-14 21:02 +1200
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:31 +0200
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 06:47 -0700
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 18:34 +0200
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 10:09 -0400
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:33 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 09:46 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 15:59 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 23:19 +0200
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 15:02 -0700
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-17 17:44 -0500
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:43 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:41 -0400
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 17:29 +0000
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 23:17 +0200
            Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 18:30 +0200
              Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 15:58 -0400
                Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 23:10 +0200
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-14 10:04 +0100
        Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 06:50 -0400
          Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-15 00:39 +1200
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2011-04-14 17:45 +0000
      Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 14:53 +0200
    Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:25 -0400
  Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 14:45 +0200

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