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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #783
| From | J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.sys.mac.system |
| Subject | Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider |
| Date | 2011-04-14 21:34 -0400 |
| Organization | none at all |
| Message-ID | <io87b801v4h@news6.newsguy.com> (permalink) |
| References | (3 earlier) <eZmdnY36M8jakTvQnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <io6v4001jlb@news3.newsguy.com> <140420111303365653%nospam@nospam.invalid> <io7evb019ri@news4.newsguy.com> <140420111515392298%nospam@nospam.invalid> |
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 18:15:39 -0400, nospam wrote (in article <140420111515392298%nospam@nospam.invalid>): > In article <io7evb019ri@news4.newsguy.com>, J.J. O'Shea > <try.not.to@but.see.sig> wrote: > >>> office 2008 is 3 years old. >> >> So? It (mostly) works. Office 2011 doesn't do a damn thing that we need >> that >> Office 2008 doesn't already do... and it doesn't fix the problems that >> Office >> 2008 has. There is absolutely no reason for us to buy it. > > then don't buy it. office 2008 is intel native and will work on lion. > no need to buy anything. And parts of it _still_ use PPC-only code. Not big parts, not important parts, but parts still do... and the parts that are Intel-capable aren't as compatible with Windows Office as Office 2004 is. Removing Office 2004 will cripple Mac-Windows round trips for Office documents. A _lot_ of our clients use Office 2003 and earlier. They are not about to upgrade. We must support them or lose their business. > > the problem is with office 2004 (and v.x). they're *old*, and it's time > to upgrade. They still work. They do a better job of producing a document which works properly in Windows than the newer versions. We must support people who use Windows. We _cannot_ upgrade. > >>> upgrading 7 >>> year old software is not an unrealistic expectation when upgrading an >>> operating system, and microsoft can release intel native updaters for >>> it going forward. >> >> They just kicked out an update yesterday. It uses a PPC-only installer. > > after lion ships, they'll kick out an intel installer. no big deal. For a PPC-only app suite? I doubt it. I really do. > >>>> I, personally, just purchased a LaCie drive; >>>> the setup app which ships with the _brand-new_, 2TB, FireWire 800, drive >>>> requires Rosetta. >>> >>> there's no need for any setup app to use any hard drive on a mac. plug >>> it in. done. >> >> I know that. John Public doesn't. > > and that's apple's fault? No. But it is Apple's problem. Who do you think John Public is going to call when there's a problem, and who do you think he's going to blame when his stuff doesn't work any more? > >> And, just so you know... that brand-new 2TB drive shipped with MBR >> partition >> tables, which means that if I had not dug out Disk Utility and >> repartitioned >> it GUID I would not be able to use it as a boot disk. The setup app _will_ >> handle things like that. Most members of the public would have no idea why >> they can't make their brand-new drive boot, or why they can't install a new >> OS onto it... > > so lacie can make an intel version. no big deal. Except that they show no sign of doing this. > > until now, they didn't need to, now they do. if they don't, there are > other companies that will be happy to sell a hard drive without being > saddled with crappy software. I used LaCie as an example. Western Digital has similar software, also PPC-only. So does Iomega. I haven't looked at Seagate, but I'll bet that they've not updated their software, either. > >>>> There are even some _newer_ >>>> hardware which require Rosetta, and not just the LaCie drive I mentioned >>>> above. You can work around the LaCie setup app fairly easily, but at >>>> least >>>> two Epson and three HP MFDs which are _shipping today_ require Rosetta or >>>> you can't scan with them. >>> >>> which ones? >> >> HP PhotoSmart C4680, Officejet 8500, assorted Epson CX systems. > > printing and scanning is supported, as part of snow leopard. 1 Apple publishes the drivers provided to it by the MFD vendors. 2 Those drivers are PPC-only in many cases, including the above noted items. They simply will not work if Rosetta is not available. If you have a device which uses PPC drivers, it will not work in Lion. Period. > > <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3669> > >>> i just bought an epson printer, plugged it in and it 'just >>> worked.' there was no need to install anything, including scanning. >> >> You have Lion? Tell us more. > > it is snow leopard, and nothing in the epson software was necessary for > the printer or scanner to work. epson can ship 68k binaries for all i > care. I'm talking about Lion and the lack of Rosetta for PPC drivers. Rosetta is present in Snow Leopard, so PPC drivers will work there without problems. And you _will_ care if Epson ships PPC drivers, as Apple will bundle the drivers Epson gives it... and if Epson gives Apple PPC drivers, then the hardware will not work. Do you _really_ think that Apple writes the drivers for all the various Epson, HP, Canon, Brother, etc. devices that work with OS X? I've got a news flash for you if that's the case: Apple is the publisher, not the producer, of those drivers. > >>> i bet that with whatever printers your thinking of, you can scan with >>> image capture or vuescan. usually the bundled software isn't all that >>> great. >> >> You can't 'cause they require TWAIN, and the version of TWAIN they ship >> with >> is PPC-only. > > i *can*, and i *do*. > > did you miss that i did not install *anything* from epson? Did you miss the fact that Epson sent its drivers to Apple for inclusion in the OS? Are you _really_ that thick? > >>>> Finally, there is the legacy stuff. At the office we have a considerable >>>> amount of older hardware which would cost tens, or even hundreds, of >>>> thousands of dollars to replace. (That is, tens to hundreds of thousands >>>> of dollars for _each item_, and we have multiple items. Hey, we have five >>>> imagesetters, none of which will work if if there's no Rosetta...) This >>>> is >>>> actually working hardware which has plenty of life in it... and which is >>>> no longer supported because the vendor which supplied them is either out >>>> of >>>> business or no longer supports Macs or both. There will _never_ be >>>> software updates for that equipment. Yes, it will have to be replaced >>>> sooner or >>>> later, if only when something breaks and we can't get the parts to >>>> fix/replace it. >>>> However, moving to Lion would break _all of it_ _all at once_. This means >>>> that we are _very_ unlikely to move to Lion until after we've replaced >>>> our >>>> legacy hardware... a process which is budget-driven. We've replaced some >>>> of the oldest equipment over the last few years, and some more is due to >>>> be >>>> replaced this year. But other items are scheduled for replacement over >>>> the >>>> next three-four years, not immediately. >>>> >>>> If Apple kills Rosetta with Lion, we simply will not be able to purchase >>>> Macs which can't run Snow Leopard for at least three years. >>> >>> most people are not in that situation. >> >> That's nice. Lots of people who do pre-press are. There are a lot of Macs >> which were sold to do pre-press. If they can't do pre-press, then there's >> no >> reason for them to be used in the company. > > sure, but out of the 20 million macs sold in the past year and millions > more sold since the intel transition, what percentage of them do > pre-press? hint: it's not high enough to justify maintaining rosetta. It's not just pre-press. It's the rest of printing and publishing, too. > > it sucks for those in that group, but that's the price of progress. > > it's the same thing when they killed classic. some people bitched, but > most didn't care. It'll be considerably worse. There were work-arounds. I know, 'cause I used them. > >>>> I am quite sure that we are not alone in this. >>> >>> you're not alone, but you are definitely in the tiny minority. yes, it >>> sucks for you and anyone else who relies on powerpc apps, but it won't >>> adversely affect mac sales a whole lot, if at all. >> >> I suspect that you may be incorrect on this point. > > based on what? Based on the simple fact that anyone in the printing business who has legacy hardware won't be able to buy a Mac until all the legacy hardware is gone. That will take years. A lot of Macs were sold not just for the office, but for work away from the office. There'll be a ripple effect. > apple has been outpacing the market as a whole for a > number of years. Irrelevant. That was then, this is now. > > check back next year after lion ships and let's see if their sales take > a dive because of the lack of rosetta. it didn't dive when classic was > eliminated. Actually, a lot of people bought a lot of older Macs around that time precisely to use them instead of newer Macs because they needed Classic. We certainly did. I predict that there will be strong sales of machines which can run Snow Leopard for quite some time after Lion is released. -- email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
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OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 07:25 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-13 07:55 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-13 15:56 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 16:49 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-13 22:10 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 17:41 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-13 22:43 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 17:47 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-13 17:30 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 17:46 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 10:08 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 13:03 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 14:38 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 15:15 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-15 12:05 +1200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:48 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 21:51 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 08:15 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-16 00:23 +1200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-14 21:34 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 22:13 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-15 09:12 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-15 17:14 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 19:20 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-16 23:40 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:46 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-17 13:40 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-17 14:21 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 06:49 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:18 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 18:41 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:37 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2011-04-15 23:55 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:48 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 09:35 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:20 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 12:39 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:20 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-18 13:18 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-19 09:00 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-19 09:02 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 17:52 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-16 23:38 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:49 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 09:59 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:28 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 10:06 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 16:56 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 09:56 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-18 07:58 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-18 12:32 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:35 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-19 12:41 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-19 08:00 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-19 09:04 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2011-04-18 10:25 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-20 09:31 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider glawrie <gavin.lawrie@2gc.co.uk> - 2011-04-15 21:44 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 07:50 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:38 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-04-14 21:26 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-18 17:13 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-18 19:43 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-19 09:06 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-20 11:58 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-20 09:10 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2011-04-20 09:17 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:25 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:25 -0400
OS X and the iToy ecosystem AES <siegman@stanford.edu> - 2011-04-15 07:03 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 09:58 -0500
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:37 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 08:12 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem AES <siegman@stanford.edu> - 2011-04-15 11:10 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:38 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 17:54 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 14:56 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 19:27 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 22:32 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-16 10:42 -0500
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2011-04-15 11:37 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 12:51 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 17:10 +0200
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2011-04-17 11:29 -0500
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem sbt <dogbreath@chaseabone.com.invalid> - 2011-04-17 11:16 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 11:48 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 10:22 +0200
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org> - 2011-04-18 07:44 -0500
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-18 08:47 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Kiraly <ggrandish@gmail.com> - 2011-04-18 15:16 -0700
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-18 19:48 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2011-04-19 02:58 +0000
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-18 07:45 -0500
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Tom Stiller <tom_stiller@yahoo.com> - 2011-04-18 10:13 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-18 14:49 -0500
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2011-04-18 22:53 +0000
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-18 10:20 +0200
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 12:37 -0400
Re: OS X and the iToy ecosystem Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2011-04-15 17:11 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 12:22 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:58 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider BreadWithSpam@fractious.net - 2011-04-13 21:04 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:49 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:29 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 10:52 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dcohenspam@talktalk.net (Daniel Cohen) - 2011-04-14 20:17 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:31 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-14 21:43 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2011-04-18 12:37 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-13 20:04 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:29 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-16 04:52 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-16 01:08 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:42 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-16 10:45 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-20 01:41 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-20 07:54 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:39 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-13 15:45 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 16:22 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider AES <siegman@stanford.edu> - 2011-04-13 15:08 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-13 18:20 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 07:54 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 10:52 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider billy@MIX.COM - 2011-04-16 04:45 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-13 21:02 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 02:13 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:37 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 20:14 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 22:04 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 04:12 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 06:47 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2011-04-16 01:23 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:34 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-04-15 11:49 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:26 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com> - 2011-04-15 12:25 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 08:35 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-15 12:12 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:11 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 19:08 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 16:06 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 14:53 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 19:25 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:08 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 22:29 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:24 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 19:13 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-15 21:09 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:31 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 20:32 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:18 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-15 23:33 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-16 08:39 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-16 11:20 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-15 08:43 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-15 18:18 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2011-04-16 01:36 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-16 17:04 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:13 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider russotto@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew Russotto) - 2011-04-16 01:17 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:10 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 07:16 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:04 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 16:03 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:03 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-15 07:43 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:52 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 16:56 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-19 12:42 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-14 10:52 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-14 08:35 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-13 21:35 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-13 22:04 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2011-04-13 23:01 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 02:41 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-15 23:40 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-16 00:59 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2011-04-15 23:42 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:45 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:43 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Sander Tekelenburg <user@domain.invalid> - 2011-04-14 05:23 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:37 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-17 12:20 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 20:24 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-14 21:02 +1200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 15:31 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 06:47 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 18:34 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 10:09 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-17 12:33 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 09:46 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 15:59 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 23:19 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2011-04-17 15:02 -0700
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2011-04-17 17:44 -0500
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:43 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider J.J. O'Shea <try.not.to@but.see.sig> - 2011-04-18 12:41 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 17:29 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 23:17 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 18:30 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2011-04-17 15:58 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 23:10 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Tim Streater <timstreater@waitrose.com> - 2011-04-14 10:04 +0100
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2011-04-14 06:50 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2011-04-15 00:39 +1200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2011-04-14 17:45 +0000
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 14:53 +0200
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2011-04-14 16:25 -0400
Re: OS X Lion - breakdown of features, changes - appleinsider Paul Sture <paul.nospam@sture.ch> - 2011-04-17 14:45 +0200
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