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Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all

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On 22/06/2011 00:30, RayLopez99 wrote:
> On Jun 21, 11:33 pm, David Brown<david.br...@removethis.hesbynett.no>
> wrote:
>> Again, you have no concept of what you are saying yourself, never mind
>> what anyone else is saying.
>
> Nope.  Personal attack noted.

It's not an attack - it's a statement of fact (assuming, of course, that 
you are actually as ignorant as you appear to be, rather than just 
pretending).

Given the large number of ad hominem, inappropriate, and incorrect 
insults you have made against me (and most others here, including those 
that try to help you), I assume that this is just the way you like to 
converse.

>
>
>>> Nope.  Read this article and when you lern something get back to me:
>>> http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/141378
>>
>> As I said, there are no problems saving files from Windows to a Linux
>> system and reading them back again.  Nothing in that article indicates
>> anything different.  Any time you save a file on a system and read it
>> back, you will get the same file with the same line endings and same
>> encodings as you started with.
>
> Nope. If you convert a file from Linux to Windows and back again 10M
> times, I bet you'd have problems somewhere.  that was actually
> demonstrated on Excel by a professor a decade or more ago, and I'm
> sure a high number of I/O conversions would yield a similar error.
>

Again, you are talking from complete and total ignorance.  There is no 
such thing as "convert a file from Linux to Windows" (or "I/O 
conversions").  And even if there were, then the "conversion" would be 
either correct or incorrect - repeating the conversion 10M times would 
not change that.

Perhaps what this mythical professor was doing is converting an Excel 
file to an OpenOffice file (or StarOffice or gnumeric file, if it was a 
decade ago).  In the conversion of a file format like that, there may be 
some artefacts of the conversion process that build up as you convert 
back and forth.  As a simple (but made-up) example, suppose that when 
converting the expression "A1 + A2" from one format to the other, an 
extra pair of brackets is added "(A1 + A2)".  The conversion would still 
be correct, but if repeated 10M times you would get "((...(A1 + 
A2)...))" - eventually reaching the limit of the number of nested 
parenthesis the program (Excel, StarOffice, gnumeric, etc.) can work with.

But, as usual, this mythical professor with his mythical problem is 
totally unrelated to your imaginary issues with storing Windows files on 
Linux.

>
>>
>> If you have a file saved with one line ending, and try to open it with a
>> program that only works with a different line ending, then you will have
>> problems.  This is totally independent of the OS and applies equally to
>> Linux and Windows programs.
>
> Nope.  We're talking file systems.  Handled by the OS at a low level.
>

It's hard to know what /you/ are talking about, since you don't 
understand about files, file systems, or operating systems.

Filesystems store files.  You give them a file - a bunch of bytes - and 
later on, when you ask for it back, you get that same bunch of bytes. 
It's quite simple.  The OS doesn't look inside the file or make any 
changes to it underway.  It doesn't care if it is "text" or "binary", or 
what character encoding was used, or what line ending was used, or what 
program in what OS made the file.  It's just a bunch of bytes.

>
>> Similarly, if you have a file with one type
>> of character encoding, and you view it using a different character
>> encoding, you will have problems.  Again, this is independent of the OS.
>>
>
> Nope.  Embedded in the OS.  Try harder.
>

/What/ is "embedded in the OS"?  Line-endings?  Character encodings?

I use text files with different line endings and different character 
encodings on both Windows and Linux - it is not "embedded in the OS". 
By default, Unix programs use LF line endings and Windows programs use 
CR+LF.  That also applies to files used by the OS - Windows wants CR+LF 
line endings for .bat and .ini files, for example, and Linux wants LF 
line endings for configuration files.  But either system will happily 
store files with either line ending, and programs such as text editors 
will happily work with either on either OS.

>> You can demonstrate this by writing some text in Notepad and saving it
>> in utf-16 format.  Then open a command prompt and "type" that same file
>> - it will look a mess.  All from within Windows.
>
> Nope.  You are confusing ASCII with extended ASCII.
>

I am not confusing anything, but it turns out that "type" also supports 
litte-endian utf-16 format.  That was a bad guess from me - I didn't 
have any windows systems available conveniently for testing.  Now, try 
again from Notepad but safe the files in UTF-8 or "Unicode big-endian" 
(which is utf-16 big endian) format.  You don't even have to use 
non-ASCII characters - "Hello world" is enough.

>>
>> And all of which has nothing to do with line endings, and nothing to do
>> with the fact that you can store Windows files on a Linux system.
>
> Nope, see above.
>

It's /really/ difficult trying to break through your wilful ignorance.

>>
>> Mind you, I should thank you for that link - I was not aware of the
>> recode utility.
>
> You are ignorant of many things, young grasshopper.
>

Everyone is ignorant of many things - but ignorance has a cure.  I have 
a fairly good understand of what I know about, and what I don't know 
about, and am happy to learn.

I don't think your brand of determined stupidity has much hope, however.


>> I have rarely needed to do such character encoding
>> conversion, and have normally just used a text editor (/not/ notepad).
>> But it's nice to know of a command-line utility that does the job too.
>
> Nope.
>

Pardon?  What are you denying here - that "recode" does the job 
described in the article you found, or that I like to know about such 
utilities?  Or perhaps you know more than I do about how often /I/ need 
to change character encodings, or the tools I use for such things?

>>
>>> And keep in mind they are talking about characters not binary data.
>>> Binary data and reading /writing from the stream in Linux and Windows
>>> has its own problems.
>>
>> There are no such problems outside of your fantasies.
>
> Nope.
>

Well, we are all still waiting for an example of such problems. 
Everyone else happily mixes Linux and Windows for file storage of both 
text and non-text files, without problems.  You linked to an article 
about utilities to change line endings and character encodings - while 
it was somewhat interesting, it is irrelevant to your imaginary 
problems.  And you mentioned a mythical professor a decade ago who had 
trouble with Excel.

Do you have any concrete, real-world examples of the "problems" with 
"file conversions" when storing windows files on a Linux filesystem?

>>
>> Keep in mind that people do this stuff all the time.  Like many
>> companies, my company use Linux servers to store all their data, and
>> mostly Windows on the desktop (with some Linux desktops too).  I also
>> use Windows and Linux virtual machines on both Windows and Linux hosts.
>>    I believe I would have noticed if there were problems transporting
>> either text or binary files between the systems.
>
> Nope.  You are pretty ignorant, a low level grunt who is simply an
> expendable (once Azure gains market share) IT hack.
>

I googled "Azure market share".  Here are some top links:

<http://www.vcritical.com/2010/07/microsoft-seeks-to-stem-azure-exodus-with-huge-appliance/>

<http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsofts-weakest-cloud-link-the-windows-azure-console/5203>

<http://searchitchannel.techtarget.com/news/1350979/Microsoft-Azure-fails-Smartphone-sales-sag>

If you've got a link that shows Azure having a significant and/or 
growing market share, you could post it here.

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I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 16:16 -0700
  Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 16:19 -0700
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2011-06-16 01:23 +0200
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2011-06-15 16:29 -0700
      Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux (was: Pentium II) JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-15 16:50 -0700
        Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux (was: Pentium II) RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 00:09 -0700
        Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-16 09:39 +0200
          Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-06-16 09:52 -0500
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-16 16:18 +0100
          Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux Marti Van Lin <ml2mst@dontevenbother.invalid> - 2011-06-16 20:59 +0200
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-16 14:53 -0700
              Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux Marti Van Lin <ml2mst@dontevenbother.invalid> - 2011-06-17 05:59 +0200
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-16 22:25 -0700
          Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-16 13:07 -0700
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-16 23:29 +0200
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2011-06-16 23:22 +0100
              Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Goblin <bytes4free@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-16 23:30 +0100
              Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-16 23:53 +0100
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Goblin <bytes4free@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-16 23:56 +0100
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-17 00:00 +0100
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Goblin <bytes4free@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 00:08 +0100
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Marti Van Lin <ml2mst@dontevenbother.invalid> - 2011-06-17 06:37 +0200
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-06-15 17:48 -0700
        Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 19:12 +0200
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 01:54 -0700
        Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Bill_h <bill_h@mindless.com> - 2011-06-16 09:55 +0000
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all White Spirit <wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> - 2011-06-16 11:46 +0100
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-16 00:32 +0100
  Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-15 23:38 +0000
    WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-15 17:56 -0700
      Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-16 07:11 -0500
        Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) Bjørn Steensrud <bjornst+usenet@skogkatt.homelinux.org> - 2011-06-17 11:43 +0200
          Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 10:52 +0000
            Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-17 12:07 -0700
              Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-06-17 15:17 -0400
                Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 20:40 +0000
            Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) Bjørn Steensrud <bjornst+usenet@skogkatt.homelinux.org> - 2011-06-17 23:03 +0200
              Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-06-17 17:57 -0400
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 00:08 -0700
  Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2011-06-18 06:16 -0700
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 09:37 -0700
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2011-06-18 10:08 -0700
        Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 13:25 -0700
          Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2011-06-18 14:02 -0700
            Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 16:19 -0700
              Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2011-06-20 15:20 -0500
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 14:55 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 04:44 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 05:33 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-21 16:07 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 09:08 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 17:29 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-21 20:59 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 13:03 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-21 22:33 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 15:30 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 10:45 +0200
                Is Ray Lopez too stupid to even run Windows? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-22 10:28 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 03:14 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 12:51 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 05:24 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 16:16 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 22:35 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchmail.com> - 2011-06-21 12:18 -0400
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-21 21:06 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 12:04 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 13:01 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 17:28 +0100
            Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 16:40 -0700
              Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2011-06-20 15:20 -0500
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-18 14:11 -0700
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 16:16 -0700

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