Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all

Date	2011-06-22 13:01 +0200
From	David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.setup, alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject	Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all
References	(10 earlier) <9d238bbf-838c-460f-887e-d13002d0449d@p13g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> <0rCdnTKpn5GXO53TnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@lyse.net> <itqg8c$ee5$1@dont-email.me> <KNadnYLqQbcydp3TnZ2dnUVZ8mqdnZ2d@lyse.net> <bspqm6mbbc.fsf@news.eternal-september.org>
Message-ID	<AdGdnVRqf8lXVpzTnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@lyse.net> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On 22/06/2011 12:04, Hadron wrote:
> David Brown<david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no>  writes:
>
>> On 21/06/11 18:18, Ezekiel wrote:
>>> "David Brown"<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>   wrote in message
>>> news:0rCdnTKpn5GXO53TnZ2dnUVZ8q6dnZ2d@lyse.net...
>>>> On 21/06/2011 14:33, RayLopez99 wrote:
>>>>> On Jun 21, 6:44 am, The Natural Philosopher<t...@invalid.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I was actually learning something from you post then I noticed it was
>>>>> from you.  So it must be wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if what you say is true there must be some data conversion of data
>>>>> from Linux format to Windows format--I think Linux uses a different
>>>>> file format entirely.  Not Big Endian either, which is at the byte
>>>>> level, but at the hard drive level.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not convinced you are capable of boiling an egg, never mind figuring
>>>> out which way up it should go.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the issue that you are confused about is line-endings in text
>>>> files.  Unix has always used LF (character 10) as a line ending, while
>>>> Macs have always used CR (character 13).  DOS, for some incomprehensible
>>>> reason, used two characters - CR + LF.  This absurdity has continued, and
>>>> is the "standard" in Windows.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This "absurdity" is also the standard line ending for DEC TOPS-10, RT-11,
>>> CP/M, MP/M, DOS, Atari TOS, OS/2, Microsoft Windows, Symbian OS and Palm OS.
>>> Not to mention that CR+LF is also the standard delimiter for *most* internet
>>> protocols including mail, NNTP, HTTP, etc, etc.
>>>
>>
>> That doesn't make it any less of an absurdity!
>>
>> There were reasons for having CR+LF on the earliest systems with teletype
>> interfaces - printers at that time required the two separate
>> characters.  But
>
> You can almost smell the google...

Teletype interfaces were before my day, but I still know a bit about how 
they work.

>
> Listen : its there for a reason. Suck it up and stop pretending you knew
> better back when.
>
>> there was no good reason for keeping it in DOS (and probably no good reason in
>> CP/M either) - since software had to be written anew anyway, and interaction
>> between DOS and other systems was so small, it would have been perfectly
>> practical to choose a single character for a line ending.
>
> As only you know...
>
> Because of course existing data was non existent.
>

Yes, I am fully aware that the choice was for compatibility.  But at the 
time when DOS (and CP/M before it) was first created, there were other 
systems around (such as early Unix) that used a single LF line-ending. 
The designers could equally well have chosen compatibility with those 
systems.

Using two characters for a line ending was a mistake.  It may have been 
made for good reasons, and may have made most sense at the time.  But in 
the long run, it was a bad choice.  It's like many other bad choices we 
live with today, such as the layout of the qwerty keyboard, or the x86 
architecture.  It's easy to see /why/ they are the way they are, and 
often there were no wrong decisions along the way, but the result is 
definitely sub-optimal.

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I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 16:16 -0700
  Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 16:19 -0700
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2011-06-16 01:23 +0200
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2011-06-15 16:29 -0700
      Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux (was: Pentium II) JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-15 16:50 -0700
        Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux (was: Pentium II) RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 00:09 -0700
        Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-16 09:39 +0200
          Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux JEDIDIAH <jedi@nomad.mishnet> - 2011-06-16 09:52 -0500
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-16 16:18 +0100
          Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux Marti Van Lin <ml2mst@dontevenbother.invalid> - 2011-06-16 20:59 +0200
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-16 14:53 -0700
              Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux Marti Van Lin <ml2mst@dontevenbother.invalid> - 2011-06-17 05:59 +0200
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll lies about Linux JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-16 22:25 -0700
          Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-16 13:07 -0700
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-16 23:29 +0200
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework William Poaster <wp@induh-vidual.net> - 2011-06-16 23:22 +0100
              Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Goblin <bytes4free@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-16 23:30 +0100
              Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-16 23:53 +0100
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Goblin <bytes4free@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-16 23:56 +0100
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-17 00:00 +0100
                Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Goblin <bytes4free@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 00:08 +0100
            Re: Scumbag WinTroll didn't do his Linux homework Marti Van Lin <ml2mst@dontevenbother.invalid> - 2011-06-17 06:37 +0200
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2011-06-15 17:48 -0700
        Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all TomB <tommy.bongaerts@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 19:12 +0200
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 01:54 -0700
        Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Bill_h <bill_h@mindless.com> - 2011-06-16 09:55 +0000
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all White Spirit <wspirit@homechoice.co.uk> - 2011-06-16 11:46 +0100
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all bbgruff <bbgruff@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-06-16 00:32 +0100
  Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-15 23:38 +0000
    WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-15 17:56 -0700
      Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-16 07:11 -0500
        Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) Bjørn Steensrud <bjornst+usenet@skogkatt.homelinux.org> - 2011-06-17 11:43 +0200
          Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 10:52 +0000
            Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-17 12:07 -0700
              Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-06-17 15:17 -0400
                Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux Chris <chrisdhaag@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 20:40 +0000
            Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux (was: Pentium II) Bjørn Steensrud <bjornst+usenet@skogkatt.homelinux.org> - 2011-06-17 23:03 +0200
              Re: WinTroll throws away perfectly good computer that will run Linux flatfish+++ <flatfish@marianatrench.com> - 2011-06-17 17:57 -0400
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-16 00:08 -0700
  Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2011-06-18 06:16 -0700
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 09:37 -0700
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2011-06-18 10:08 -0700
        Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 13:25 -0700
          Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2011-06-18 14:02 -0700
            Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 16:19 -0700
              Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2011-06-20 15:20 -0500
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-20 14:55 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 04:44 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 05:33 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-21 16:07 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 09:08 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 17:29 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-21 20:59 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 13:03 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-21 22:33 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-21 15:30 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 10:45 +0200
                Is Ray Lopez too stupid to even run Windows? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-22 10:28 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 03:14 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 12:51 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 05:24 -0700
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 16:16 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 22:35 +0100
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all "Ezekiel" <zeke@nosuchmail.com> - 2011-06-21 12:18 -0400
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2011-06-21 21:06 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all Hadron<hadronquark@gmail.com> - 2011-06-22 12:04 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2011-06-22 13:01 +0200
                Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2011-06-21 17:28 +0100
            Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 16:40 -0700
              Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2011-06-20 15:20 -0500
    Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all JeffM <jeffm_@email.com> - 2011-06-18 14:11 -0700
      Re: I finally trashed my 14 year old Pentium II computer--it ran Windows 2000 fine, but never could run Linux much at all RayLopez99 <raylopez88@gmail.com> - 2011-06-18 16:16 -0700

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