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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #76209 > unrolled thread

Framework Steps Into It

Started byrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
First post2025-10-15 21:39 +0000
Last post2025-10-21 15:33 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 79 — 16 participants

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Contents

  Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-15 21:39 +0000
    Re: Framework Steps Into It Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-10-16 21:37 +0200
      Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-17 01:52 +0000
    Re: Framework Steps Into It Jason H <jason_hindle@yahoo.com> - 2025-10-17 21:08 +0000
      Re: Framework Steps Into It Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-10-18 08:20 +0200
        Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-18 06:33 +0000
          Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-18 19:40 +0000
          Re: Framework Steps Into It Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-10-22 06:41 +0200
            Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-22 21:46 +0000
              Re: Framework Steps Into It Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-10-25 12:52 +0000
                Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-25 16:46 +0100
      Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-18 10:37 +0100
      Re: Framework Steps Into It Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2025-10-19 21:19 +0000
        Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-20 17:05 +0100
        Re: Framework Steps Into It Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2025-10-21 12:00 +0000
          Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-21 13:37 +0100
            Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-21 15:37 +0100
            Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-21 19:26 +0000
              Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-22 11:35 +0100
              Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:34 +0100
                Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-22 20:41 +0000
                  Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-22 15:18 -0700
                    Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-23 08:57 +0100
                    Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-23 20:16 +0000
                      Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-23 20:30 -0700
                        Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-24 05:28 +0000
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-23 23:09 -0700
                            Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-24 18:50 +0000
                        Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-24 10:13 +0100
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-24 10:25 +0100
                            Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-24 11:51 +0100
                              Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-24 17:06 +0100
                              Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-24 19:02 +0000
                                Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-25 10:38 +0100
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-24 18:54 +0000
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 21:09 +0000
                            Re: Framework Steps Into It Joerg Walther <joerg.walther@magenta.de> - 2025-10-25 10:45 +0200
                              Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-25 10:43 +0100
                  Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-23 08:54 +0100
              Re: Framework Steps Into It Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-22 18:03 +0000
                Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-22 20:38 +0000
            Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-21 22:55 +0000
              Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:15 +0100
                Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-22 21:48 +0000
                  Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-23 09:12 +0100
                    Re: Framework Steps Into It Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2025-10-23 10:11 +0000
                      Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-23 20:10 +0000
                    Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 21:00 +0000
                      Re: Framework Steps Into It Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-10-24 09:44 +0100
                        Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:42 +0000
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-24 23:01 +0000
                            Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-25 01:05 +0000
            Re: Framework Steps Into It Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2025-10-22 11:31 +0000
              Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-22 12:51 +0100
              Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 00:08 +0000
                Re: Framework Steps Into It Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-23 04:01 +0000
                Re: Framework Steps Into It Borax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid> - 2025-10-23 10:09 +0000
                  Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-23 09:59 -0700
                    Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-23 18:55 +0100
                    Re: Framework Steps Into It "Rinaldi J. Montessi" <rinaldij@dev.null> - 2025-10-23 13:29 -0500
                      Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-23 20:14 +0000
                      Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-23 20:47 -0700
                        Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-24 10:14 +0100
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-24 18:44 +0000
                            Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-24 12:55 -0700
                              Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-25 02:05 +0000
                                Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-24 21:45 -0700
                                  Re: Framework Steps Into It "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-25 15:06 +0200
                                  Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-25 19:55 +0000
                                    Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-25 14:45 -0700
                                      Re: Framework Steps Into It Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-26 01:37 +0100
                                        Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-25 21:01 -0700
                                      Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-26 02:10 +0000
                                        Re: Framework Steps Into It Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-25 21:13 -0700
                                          Re: Framework Steps Into It rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-26 07:22 +0000
                          Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-24 20:43 +0000
                  Re: Framework Steps Into It Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-10-23 21:03 +0000
              Re: Framework Steps Into It c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-10-23 00:08 -0400
          Re: Framework Steps Into It The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-21 15:33 +0100

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#76546

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-10-22 20:38 +0000
Message-ID<mlstm2F3gmnU5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#76540
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 18:03:32 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-10-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> Vaguely related: I didn't attend but in the photos of Saturday's No
>> Kings demonstration I saw what I thought was a surprising amount of
>> gray fur. I wrote it off since this city has a lot of aging hippies.
>> From comments across the country it seems boomers were over represented
>> across the country.
>>
>> I'd have thought it was a young person thing.
> 
> Probably a lot of those boomers are explaining things to the young
> people, many of whom get a blank look when you mention Kent State.  Some
> of those boomers might even be able to relate their parents' stories
> about Germany in the 1930s.

You mean the decadence of the Weimar Republic, with the KPD and original 
Antifa threatening to take over the country and replay the Red Terror of 
the Hungarian Soviet Republic? 

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#76483

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-10-21 22:55 +0000
Message-ID<10d930a$90v4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76467
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:

> Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant 
> evangelists.

It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring out how 
it works and developing it in your own way, and then redistributing your 
new, improved version.

There are too many of these complainers around, who don’t actually 
understand how to contribute to the software, who nevertheless like to put 
down those who do.

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#76534

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2025-10-22 14:15 +0100
Message-ID<10dald9$k85q$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76483
On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
> 
>> Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant
>> evangelists.
> 
> It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring out how
> it works and developing it in your own way, and then redistributing your
> new, improved version.
> 

But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other free 
software developers. They claim a developer has been hostile, or 
committed some vague or unspoken offence and should be shunned by other 
developers. They pass down edicts that the other person should be 
shunned. If other projects don't shun a developer declared hostile, 
there is a fear they will be declared hostile themselves.

This is exactly the way religious bigotry and oppression work. Most 
people just want to fit in, so they go along with bigotry for fear of 
being excluded themselves.


> There are too many of these complainers around, who don’t actually
> understand how to contribute to the software, who nevertheless like to put
> down those who do.

Yes, there are unholy people who have the temerity to comment on the 
behaviour of the anointed priesthood.

There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588 Mali 
g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and delivered 
a working driver. The official team criticised other projects for using 
this driver. Apparently, all the end users should have waited a year or 
two for them to develop an official driver.

I've got no idea what went on between the two parties, but I wanted a 
working driver, I consider it very rude when someone starts demanding I 
stop using working software because they have some vague, unproven, beef 
with the other developer.

It was only years later I realised that one of the developers was trans. 
Now, I know in the modern enlightened world I'm not supposed to notice 
such things, but I do. My life is built upon using heuristics and 
informed generalisation.

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#76552

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-10-22 21:48 +0000
Message-ID<10dbjfp$tt70$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76534
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:

> On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>
>>> Is there something about Linux development that attracts
>>> intolerant evangelists.
>>
>> It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring
>> out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then
>> redistributing your new, improved version.
>>
> But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
> free software developers.

They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
continuing the development elsewhere.

> There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
> Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and
> delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
> projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users should
> have waited a year or two for them to develop an official driver.

And did they?

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#76576

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2025-10-23 09:12 +0100
Message-ID<10dco23$1eh3m$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76552
On 10/22/25 22:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:
> 
>> On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is there something about Linux development that attracts
>>>> intolerant evangelists.
>>>
>>> It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring
>>> out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then
>>> redistributing your new, improved version.
>>>
>> But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
>> free software developers.
> 
> They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
> continuing the development elsewhere.
> 

Teams ejecting members is fine, attempting to cancel the ejected person 
is not.

>> There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
>> Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and
>> delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
>> projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users should
>> have waited a year or two for them to develop an official driver.
> 
> And did they?

Some other projects avoided the driver, others refused to help develop 
it. The official driver is now out, but not yet with full functionality.

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#76579

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2025-10-23 10:11 +0000
Message-ID<slrn10fjvq5.7han.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#76576
On 2025-10-23, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/22/25 22:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>> 
>>> On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there something about Linux development that attracts
>>>>> intolerant evangelists.
>>>>
>>>> It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring
>>>> out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then
>>>> redistributing your new, improved version.
>>>>
>>> But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
>>> free software developers.
>> 
>> They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
>> continuing the development elsewhere.
>> 
>
> Teams ejecting members is fine, attempting to cancel the ejected person 
> is not.
>
>>> There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
>>> Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and
>>> delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
>>> projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users should
>>> have waited a year or two for them to develop an official driver.
>> 
>> And did they?
>
> Some other projects avoided the driver, others refused to help develop 
> it. The official driver is now out, but not yet with full functionality.

Leftists just deny, deny, deny.

They are best ignored, rather than debated.

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#76596

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-10-23 20:10 +0000
Message-ID<mlvgdjFgc64U9@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#76579
On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 10:11:17 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> They are best ignored, rather than debated.

Mud wrestling with a pig...

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#76602

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-10-23 21:00 +0000
Message-ID<10de522$250ss$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76576
On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 09:12:51 +0100, Pancho wrote:

> On 10/22/25 22:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Is there something about Linux development that attracts
>>>>> intolerant evangelists.
>>>>
>>>> It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or
>>>> figuring out how it works and developing it in your own way, and
>>>> then redistributing your new, improved version.
>>>>
>>> But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
>>> free software developers.
>>
>> They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
>> continuing the development elsewhere.
>>
> Teams ejecting members is fine, attempting to cancel the ejected
> person is not.

I’m not sure how you can “cancel” someone from using and developing
Free software. The licences are irrevocable, remember -- there are no
clauses in them that say you are not permitted to use some software
just because someone doesn’t agree with your politics.

>>> There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
>>> Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team
>>> and delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
>>> projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users
>>> should have waited a year or two for them to develop an official
>>> driver.
>>
>> And did they?
>
> Some other projects avoided the driver, others refused to help
> develop it. The official driver is now out, but not yet with full
> functionality.

So some projects *did* use the renegade driver? Did it work OK?

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#76623

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com>
Date2025-10-24 09:44 +0100
Message-ID<10dfe94$2eb1q$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76602
On 10/23/25 22:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2025 09:12:51 +0100, Pancho wrote:
> 
>> On 10/22/25 22:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there something about Linux development that attracts
>>>>>> intolerant evangelists.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or
>>>>> figuring out how it works and developing it in your own way, and
>>>>> then redistributing your new, improved version.
>>>>>
>>>> But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
>>>> free software developers.
>>>
>>> They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
>>> continuing the development elsewhere.
>>>
>> Teams ejecting members is fine, attempting to cancel the ejected
>> person is not.
> 
> I’m not sure how you can “cancel” someone from using and developing
> Free software. The licences are irrevocable, remember -- there are no
> clauses in them that say you are not permitted to use some software
> just because someone doesn’t agree with your politics.
>

This is a silly argument. Free software developers want their software 
to be used. They want to collaborate with other people. Just like 
commercial companies want their software to be bought. Politically 
motivated attempts to stop people using the software are important to 
them, they do hurt them. They are politically stifling, which is what 
they are designed to be.

You can claim a specific boycott campaign is righteous, but claiming 
they are inherently insignificant is disingenuous.

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#76646

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-10-24 20:42 +0000
Message-ID<10dgob4$2rrqv$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76623
On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 09:44:20 +0100, Pancho wrote:

> On 10/23/25 22:00, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> I’m not sure how you can “cancel” someone from using and developing
>> Free software. The licences are irrevocable, remember -- there are
>> no clauses in them that say you are not permitted to use some
>> software just because someone doesn’t agree with your politics.
>>
> Politically motivated attempts to stop people using the software are
> important to them, they do hurt them.

You still haven’t explained how such a thing can be done.

> You can claim a specific boycott campaign is righteous, but claiming
> they are inherently insignificant is disingenuous.

Where has there ever been a successful campaign to boycott Free software?

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#76649

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-10-24 23:01 +0000
Message-ID<czTKQ.203619$RB68.132756@fx39.iad>
In reply to#76646
On 2025-10-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> Where has there ever been a successful campaign to boycott Free software?

Probably nowhere in the long term.  But there have been successes in
the short term.  And then you get things like Microsoft's TCO fiasco...

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#76650

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-10-25 01:05 +0000
Message-ID<10dh7p2$30ao1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76649
On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:01:28 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-10-24, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> Where has there ever been a successful campaign to boycott Free software?
> 
> Probably nowhere in the long term.  But there have been successes in
> the short term.

Please mention one or two.

>  And then you get things like Microsoft's TCO fiasco...

Microsoft was completely outclassed.

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#76520

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2025-10-22 11:31 +0000
Message-ID<slrn10fhg4o.78u6.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#76467
On 2025-10-21, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
>
>
>> Who the hell cares?  People are sick and tired of this political
>> rubbish.
>> 
>> They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
>> otherwise they cry.
>> 
>> Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
>> not going to make subservient political statements that they want them t
>> make, then they can just bugger off.  If that means we see less
>> pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
>> 
>> We all see through this charade.  They are political activists, trying
>> to bully others into being politically active.
>> 
>> 
>
> I don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of 
> stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.
>
> Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant 
> evangelists. I don't think it is just trans issues, in the past I can 
> remember people getting over-heated about boring everyday stuff such as 
> bicycle helmets.
>
> It's like they should be taking chill pills.
>
> Are Rust rewrites pointless? It seems to me, a modern OS should be 
> written in a modern language. The thing I don't have a feeling for is if 
> it is best to incrementally refactor Linux, or if someone should start 
> from scratch.
>

I think they are.  If it isn't broken, why fix it?

I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
control of the Free Software movement, by moving the major tools from
others to yourself, where you can police and gatekeep the community.  If
your half-baked rust version (and they usually are half baked) is what
is now being used by Distros, that gives you power, and you can be more
political.

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#76525

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-22 12:51 +0100
Message-ID<10daggl$ii4h$12@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76520
On 22/10/2025 12:31, Borax Man wrote:
> I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
> control of the Free Software movement, by moving the major tools from
> others to yourself, where you can police and gatekeep the community.  If
> your half-baked rust version (and they usually are half baked) is what
> is now being used by Distros, that gives you power, and you can be more
> political.

This again is straight out of AgitProp 101 and the Communist handbook.

"Politics is all that is important, whatever job you do it is always in 
the service of the Cause."

Back in the 1960s Rudi Dutschke coined the phrase 'the long march 
through the institutions' as a description of the Communist's strategy 
to achieve world dominance.

They have now achieved that and moral politics and need for more 
government control to enforce it is the dominant force in  Western 
institutions.

Leading to the backlash of the Right that is now gathering momentum.

-- 
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and 
all women"

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#76558

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-10-23 00:08 +0000
Message-ID<10dbrmn$10pja$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76520
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:31:37 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:

> I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
> control of the Free Software movement ...

Any good conspiracy theory must obey rule 1: “Cui bono?” -- Who stands to 
benefit? Or if you prefer, “follow the money”.

How can any hypothetical group, no matter how sinister or shadowy, 1) take 
control of a movement which is inherently based on freedom from anybody’s 
control, and 2) accumulate money and/or power by doing so?

Sometimes it’s quite amusing to see the conspiracy theorists tie 
themselves in knots trying to answer these questions ...

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#76562

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-10-23 04:01 +0000
Message-ID<LMhKQ.1085701$Jgh9.796932@fx15.iad>
In reply to#76558
On 2025-10-23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:31:37 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>
>> I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
>> control of the Free Software movement ...
>
> Any good conspiracy theory must obey rule 1: “Cui bono?” -- Who stands to 
> benefit? Or if you prefer, “follow the money”.
>
> How can any hypothetical group, no matter how sinister or shadowy, 1) take 
> control of a movement which is inherently based on freedom from anybody’s 
> control, and 2) accumulate money and/or power by doing so?
>
> Sometimes it’s quite amusing to see the conspiracy theorists tie 
> themselves in knots trying to answer these questions ...

On the other hand, consider the "embrace, extend, extinguish" movement.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

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#76578

FromBorax Man <boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
Date2025-10-23 10:09 +0000
Message-ID<slrn10fjvmo.7han.boraxman@geidiprime.invalid>
In reply to#76558
On 2025-10-23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:31:37 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>
>> I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
>> control of the Free Software movement ...
>
> Any good conspiracy theory must obey rule 1: “Cui bono?” -- Who stands to 
> benefit? Or if you prefer, “follow the money”.
>
> How can any hypothetical group, no matter how sinister or shadowy, 1) take 
> control of a movement which is inherently based on freedom from anybody’s 
> control, and 2) accumulate money and/or power by doing so?
>
> Sometimes it’s quite amusing to see the conspiracy theorists tie 
> themselves in knots trying to answer these questions ...

There is nothing to answer.  There is an endless stream of evidence that
people in the Free Software movement are politically motivated and using
their own political values as a means to justify taking action against
others who don't abide.

If you want to pretend not to see it, then go ahead.

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#76585

FromBobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>
Date2025-10-23 09:59 -0700
Message-ID<10ddmtt$1uhd5$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76578

On 10/23/25 03:09, Borax Man wrote:
> On 2025-10-23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:31:37 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
>>
>>> I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
>>> control of the Free Software movement ...
>>
>> Any good conspiracy theory must obey rule 1: “Cui bono?” -- Who stands to
>> benefit? Or if you prefer, “follow the money”.
>>
>> How can any hypothetical group, no matter how sinister or shadowy, 1) take
>> control of a movement which is inherently based on freedom from anybody’s
>> control, and 2) accumulate money and/or power by doing so?
>>
>> Sometimes it’s quite amusing to see the conspiracy theorists tie
>> themselves in knots trying to answer these questions ...
> 
> There is nothing to answer.  There is an endless stream of evidence that
> people in the Free Software movement are politically motivated and using
> their own political values as a means to justify taking action against
> others who don't abide.


	Indeed from the days of the Commodore 64 there have been
developers who attempted to deny the use  of the software to people
with whom they did not agree, politically or religiously.

	Individuals cannot get much leverage.  When their survival is
at stake I don't blame anyone from promoting the laws that will keep
them alive and attacking those which oppress them. African-Americans,
Women, and the Gay Community have all done that.  This is presently
the case with Transgendered folks, a tiny minority of American Citizens
who are under attack from US states and Federal authorities.

> If you want to pretend not to see it, then go ahead.

	bliss

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#76587

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-10-23 18:55 +0100
Message-ID<10ddq5s$1vu01$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#76585
On 23/10/2025 17:59, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> This is presently
> the case with Transgendered folks, a tiny minority of American Citizens
> who are under attack from US states and Federal authorities.
No. They have *said* that they are. In reality no one gives a tuppeny 
f*** as long as they don't use their rest rooms and abuse their children


-- 
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do 
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon 
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent 
renewable energy.

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#76589

From"Rinaldi J. Montessi" <rinaldij@dev.null>
Date2025-10-23 13:29 -0500
Message-ID<9beb269a-00dd-4408-ae1f-48e354c01e0f@invalid.com>
In reply to#76585
On 10/23/25 11:59, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> 
>      ...This is presently
> the case with Transgendered folks, a tiny minority of American Citizens
> who are under attack from US states and Federal authorities.

Seriously?  I think twerking and suggestive dancing in elementary 
schools is a bit premature.

Is that an attack?

Rinaldi
-- 
The time has been
That, when the brains were out,
the man would die...

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