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Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre

From rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre
Date 2025-08-03 21:55 +0000
Message-ID <mfa462FihkaU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <wwvzfchsxx8.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <106l5kp$133ed$3@dont-email.me> <wwvfre864jx.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <106ohbv$1q0ne$1@dont-email.me> <106olee$1r0v9$1@dont-email.me>

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On Sun, 3 Aug 2025 22:47:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 03/08/2025 21:38, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/3/25 04:13, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> And that really is the issue. If you are setting up a machine - a big
>>>> machine - with multiple *custom* services to initiate,  then the
>>>> effort to learn systemd is probably saved in terms of writing the
>>>> service definitions.
>>>>
>>>> But in terms of a relatively 'naive' user who just wants 'a desktop
>>>> that works out of the box' by and large in many cases systemd has
>>>> resulted in stuff that does *not* work straight out of the box. And,
>>>> worse, trying to extract error logs from systemd is far more involved
>>>> to determine *why*.
>>>>
>>>> In essence there are (at least) two different target audiences. But a
>>>> Poeterring imposed 'one size that suits enterprise Linux is what you
>>>> should *all* be using' on the workstation, both for  sophisticated
>>>> and naive users, is less than ideal.
>>>
>>> LP could only influence Red Hat’s Linux platforms (and I doubt he was
>>> the only decision maker there, although I’ve no idea how RH operate
>>> internally). So I don’t really buy the ‘imposed’ narrative. Other
>>> platforms chose to adopt systemd, or in some cases not, according to
>>> their own priorities.
>>>
>>> Sometimes an OS can offer a choice between components. For example,
>>> Debian includes at least a dozen desktop environments. Service
>>> management is a bit more fundamental; it’s not necessarily impossible
>>> to support a choice, but it is more challenging, and for much less
>>> reward.
>>> It’s not surprising that most distributions have decided to pick one.
>>>
>>> End users get to follow what their OS of choice does. If enough people
>>> share the same priorities (and if at least some of them have
>>> appropriate skills and resources) then you end up with platforms
>>> following those priorities, and that does seem to have happened with
>>> systemd:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Category:Linux_distributions_without_systemd
>>>
>>>> I always mention postScript, X windows and systemd as examples of
>>>> stuff that really didn't work that great when first introduced, and
>>>> took a long time to get going bug free and was always - in the case
>>>> of PostScript and X windows a huge amount of code that by and large
>>>> *no one ever used*.
>>>
>>> In the case of X11, my understanding is that the outcome of getting
>>> rid of all that cruft is Wayland.
>>>
>>      Cruft to you is functionality that Wayland has yet to

>>      demonstrate.
>> 
>> 
>>> KiCad Advises Linux Users to Stick with X11 for Professional PCB
>>> Design
>>>                 By Bobby Borisov  June 27, 2025
>>>
>>>  The KiCad team outlines serious Wayland limitations, including
>>>  window
>>> control and
>>>  crashes, urging users to stick with X11 desktops for reliability.
>>> Full article at the next URL:
>>> <https://linuxiac.com/kicad-advises-linux-users-to-stick-with-x11-for-
professional-pcb-
>>> design/>
>> 
>>      So you see that some functionality is missing from Wayland.
>> 
> I dont mind that provided its not foisted on us and gets fixed over time

Some X functionality was removed from Wayland by design to improve 
security. There is no 'fix'.

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Thread

Artix Linux and Xlibre Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-07-26 18:40 -0400
  Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 00:30 +0000
    Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-26 18:47 -0700
      Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 01:57 +0000
        Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-26 20:28 -0700
          Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 04:38 +0000
            Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-27 02:38 -0400
              Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-08-02 12:13 -0400
            Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-27 00:58 -0700
              Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-27 22:01 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:14 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:55 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 09:33 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 21:19 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 23:40 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 23:32 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-31 10:30 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-31 17:01 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-31 22:44 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-02 09:30 +1000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-01 23:50 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 10:03 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 13:36 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-02 14:59 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-02 23:59 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 12:13 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 12:58 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 16:34 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 17:08 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-03 18:20 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-04 09:35 +1000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 16:10 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-03 13:38 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-03 22:47 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-03 21:55 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:03 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 09:28 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 19:56 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 21:27 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 22:46 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-07 17:46 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 13:36 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 12:56 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 03:28 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 12:48 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 11:26 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 12:46 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 00:21 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-04 00:20 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-04 04:24 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:05 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-06 20:24 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-04 16:23 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 05:54 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 08:35 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 07:48 +0000
                Wayland (was: Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-06 02:28 +0000
                Re: Wayland (was: Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:22 +0000
                Re: Wayland Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:10 +0100
                Re: Wayland Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 14:42 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 11:04 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-05 20:02 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 08:29 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-05 18:19 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 19:59 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 12:02 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 20:10 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:24 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-05 21:46 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 06:33 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-06 09:13 +1000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:23 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:18 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-06 09:01 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 22:11 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 03:25 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 14:14 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-07 23:14 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-07 15:56 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 04:18 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-08 06:00 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-08 08:49 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-08 21:25 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-08 15:38 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 00:05 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 10:24 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-09 10:58 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-09 17:10 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 22:33 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-09 22:26 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 10:15 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-08-10 09:03 -0400
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-10 14:24 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-08-10 07:29 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-10 20:06 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-11 11:56 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 01:00 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-09 22:39 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-08 08:42 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-08 16:02 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-08 09:00 +1000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-09 13:05 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:15 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-06 14:46 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-05 08:26 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-03 00:06 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 11:42 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-30 19:39 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-31 01:06 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 21:23 +0000
              Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 00:21 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-28 13:57 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-28 22:26 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 05:37 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 09:02 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 11:13 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:46 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:51 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:22 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 11:45 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-30 21:18 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-07-29 07:45 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:44 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-29 16:26 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:54 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:17 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-29 23:23 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-29 15:44 -0700
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-29 22:56 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 09:18 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-07-30 18:18 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2025-08-02 12:15 -0400
            Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-07-27 09:19 +0000
      Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 00:19 +0000
        Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-27 23:06 -0400
          Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-07-28 05:27 +0000
  Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-07-26 18:41 -0700
  Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-28 00:18 +0000
    Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-07-27 22:40 -0400
      Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-31 13:48 +0000
    Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-07-31 16:22 +0200
      Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-07-31 17:02 +0000
      Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-07-31 22:58 +0000
        Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-01 01:53 +0000
          Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 08:07 +0100
          Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 09:47 +0100
            Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 10:24 +0100
              Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 10:57 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 11:10 +0100
              Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-01 17:15 +0000
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-01 19:14 +0100
                Re: Artix Linux and Xlibre Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-01 19:26 +0000

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