Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine

Subject	Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
References	<v9ibk5$qcj$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> <P4mdnbCYM_pktV37nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com> <v9ppp3$lv7l$1@news1.tnib.de> <z0ednTabi_rmxlz7nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <v9tb69$s44o$1@news1.tnib.de>
From	"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Organization	vector apex
Date	2024-08-18 21:08 -0400
Message-ID	<WiydnbdJ-exiB1_7nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

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On 8/18/24 1:31 PM, Marc Haber wrote:
> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 8/17/24 5:16 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>>>> On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
>>>>> So far, I am liking it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>>>>
>>>>     GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
>>>>     install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
>>>>     is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.
>>>
>>> A big part of grub is building the configuration, which is done by
>>> scripts that come from the respective distribution. And yes, there are
>>> differences in those scripts.
>>
>>    I noticed that when trying to put Linux on laptops
>>    with the early nvram 'disks'.
> 
> What do you mean? What are nvram disks?

   Def : "NvRAM" - Non-Volatile-Random-Access-Memory ...
   the 'e-disk' you now find in every laptop and oft
   even desktops these days. Most commonly "M2" but
   the tech can be put in other things/formats. First
   saw one in the Asus EEEPC as the main 'drive'.

   AT THAT TIME, GRUB really only looked at mag and USB
   drives as potentially "bootable".

   I miss that EEEPC ... dropped it off a ladder while
   trying to position a new security cam  :-(

>>> I prefer KVM/libvirt/virt-manager. Virtualbox needs out of tree kernel
>>> modules, which can be a hassle during upgrades. I don't agree on the
>>> flexibility point. Virtualbox caters more for the novice user because
>>> its GUI is a bit more polished.
>>
>>    KVM is perfectly good - UNTIL you want to maybe ENLARGE
>>    a virtual disk. Then you've gotta edit config files and
>>    do some other weird stuff.
> 
> Resize the LV the virtual disk resides on and the VM will behave as if
> you exchanged the disk with a new one.
> 
>> With VBox its just sliding
>>    a control and VBox does the rest.

   With KVM ??? No, you have to make two edits in the
   main config file. Even that doesn't entirely get you
   there - there's a utility for expanding the logical
   partition into the new space also. Can't do it with
   GParted as it won't let you re-size what you're currently
   running from. The utility acts like - when you install
   to an SD card on a Pi there's an automatic re-size to
   completely expand '/' to fill the card. Same idea,
   maybe 95% the same code.

> Including partitions and filesystem resize inside the VM? As
> impressive that is, the old fart in my isnt comfortable with that
> level of magic. This is bound to break some time.
> 
>> KVM also uses a custom
>>    kernel wheras VBox generally doesn't need that.
> 
> This doesn't parse. KVM has been integral part of the mainline Linux
> kernel tree for a decade while VBox still requires out-of-tree
> Modules.

   Ummm ... not always - the last place I used KVM was
   a Debian, "Buster" I think. It DID install a KVM
   optimized kernel - which SCREWED UP. Had to go
   back to the previous kernel and nuke KVM.

> You confusing KVM and XEN?

   I remember each distinctly. Xen worked "ok", but
   just didn't seem as comprehensive as KVM/VBox.
   Never benchmarked the two against each other.

>>    All in all, I'd say the two were kinda "even".
> 
> I disagree. KVM/libvirt is way more flexible. For me, it's KVM because
> I'm using it in my own fleet to maintain my proficiency in case I need
> to work with it again some time in the future. That's not going to
> happen with Virtualbox due to its license.

   As said somewhere, KVM is *good* ... I just came to
   pref VBox because some aspects were "easier". Either
   can now be set to auto-boot the VMs.

> Stupid question: Is there a difference between VirtualBox and VBox?

   Of course - entirely different code. The ENDS are kinda
   the same, and kinda equally achieved. As Oracle could
   get all greedy someday, I'm happy KVM & Xen are out there.

>>    Hey, if you've got a hot i9 with gobs of ram then lots
>>    of usable VMs are kinda the logical step.
> 
> I am running five server VMs on a machine with 4 Gig of RAM. My "big"
> virtualization server has 32 Gigs and runs 22 VMs, with more than 10
> Gig free to use for disk cache. So the "gobs of RAM" is lore from two
> decades ago, any decently modern machine can handle a handful Linux
> VMs just fine.

   4 gig ? DO-able, but kinda TIGHT. The 32g unit ought to
   be better. As for "gobs" ... depends on WHAT you're running
   on the VMs. Some apps/servers are more memory-intensive
   than others ... ArcGIS for example.

   Anyway, mem is still fairly cheap, so why buy 4g when 8g
   barely costs any more ? The little BMax boxes I recently
   bought came with 16gb - and were still under $150. They
   run Manjaro and Fedora real fine. Looking to put FreeBSD
   on the last one plus some simple NAS setup.

   Hey ... how about a vm under fBSD running OpenMediaVault ?
   I can use bhyve or Xen, there's a BSD port of VBox too. :-)

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Thread

Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-08-14 13:31 +0000
  Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-14 18:13 +0200
    Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-08-14 16:43 +0000
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-08-14 20:52 +0300
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-08-15 12:42 +0200
        Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-16 10:12 +0200
          Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-16 08:14 +0000
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-17 10:00 +1000
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-17 11:12 +0200
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 23:40 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-08-18 12:34 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-18 21:48 -0400
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-18 08:59 +0000
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-18 11:02 +0100
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-18 23:22 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-18 23:37 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-19 06:01 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-19 08:25 +0200
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-21 00:21 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-21 17:46 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-22 01:06 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-22 09:35 +0100
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-23 02:24 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-08-22 19:18 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-23 02:23 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-23 01:41 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-23 05:54 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-23 06:01 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-23 02:37 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-23 07:01 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-24 00:43 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-24 05:34 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-23 10:46 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-24 00:48 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-08-24 15:59 +0000
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-18 19:07 +0200
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-19 06:01 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-19 08:26 +0200
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Jack Strangio  <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> - 2024-08-20 03:37 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-20 00:56 -0400
          Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-08-16 14:41 +0000
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-17 11:13 +0200
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-08-17 14:00 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-18 19:08 +0200
  Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-08-15 12:42 +0200
  Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 00:37 -0400
    Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-17 11:16 +0200
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-18 09:12 +1000
        Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-18 19:25 +0200
          Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-19 08:31 +1000
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-19 08:29 +0200
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-20 08:02 +1000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-21 01:55 -0400
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 22:24 -0400
        Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-18 06:28 +0000
          Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-18 21:38 -0400
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-19 01:51 +0000
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-20 00:08 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-20 05:33 +0000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-20 23:08 -0400
        Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-18 19:31 +0200
          Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-18 21:08 -0400
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-19 08:35 +0200
              Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-19 03:19 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2024-08-19 10:06 +0200
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-20 00:36 -0400
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-21 08:33 +1000
                Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-20 23:03 -0400
    Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-08-17 13:59 +0000
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-17 22:47 -0400
  Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine MarioCCCP <NoliMihiFrangereMentulam@libero.it> - 2024-08-19 18:18 +0200
    Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-19 19:48 +0100
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine MarioCCCP <NoliMihiFrangereMentulam@libero.it> - 2024-08-20 14:10 +0200
    Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-20 02:01 +0000
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine MarioCCCP <NoliMihiFrangereMentulam@libero.it> - 2024-08-20 14:15 +0200
      Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) - 2024-08-20 17:51 +0100
        Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 01:29 +0000
          Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-08-21 02:53 -0400
            Re: Using Debian to manage a multiple OS machine candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-22 20:30 +0000

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